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Thread: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

  1. #181
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    commerce is the buying and selling of goods, it is not loans......the u.s. cannot make loans to other governments, but it can borrow money on the credit of the u.s.

    regulate means to keep commerce flowing.

    commerce in the constitution means the federal government will have the power to regulate commerce among the states, and that with foreign governments, ....meaning states cannot enter into foreign commerce unless the federal government gives its approval.

    no were can congress dole out money to foreign governments.

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    the general welfare is the 18 powers of congress, ...not what government thinks is good.
    Then take them to court. I have given you my perspective, and all you are doing is sticking to yours. That is fine, and I have no problem with that, but it is not a debate when we repeat the same things just using different words. My point, is that the Congress would prevail in defending their power to do this... that is all.

    A court would need to decide this. You and I will just have to agree to disagree.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    So when do you think this Congress will ever pass their own bill?
    You're magic 8 ball is as accurate as mine. Mine says "Ask again later".
    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    after clearly refusing to take up their own Sen. Rubio's Dream Act?
    Sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And forever disdaining the process of Joint-Committee on anything ?
    What?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #183
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Obama argues, quite successfully, that he "lacks resources" to deport more than about 400K illegals per year. Congress does not contest that. Using that limit as the basis, Obama seeks to exclude deportation of those illegals that he deems lower risk for the sole purpose of deporting more illegals that he deems higher risk. To avoid having to decide each such low risk case again (possibly multiple times) he will issue "I am okey dokey" passes to those illegal aliens deemed currently unworthy of deportation.
    You should source these statements. Also, we still do not know exactly what the executive order will be. What we do know for sure is this:

    "There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system. To ignore those congressional mandates through executive order would not conform with my appropriate role as president." -President Obama in 2011

    Straight from the horse's mouth.
    "We need to ask some very tough questions of the senator from Illinois. It's not enough to be black, it's not enough to be articulate, it's not enough to be eloquent and a media darling. The only question will be how deaf an ear, or how blind an eye will people turn in order to turn a frog into a prince." -Eddie Huff

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are mistaken
    Yawnnnnnzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  6. #186
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Then take them to court. I have given you my perspective, and all you are doing is sticking to yours. That is fine, and I have no problem with that, but it is not a debate when we repeat the same things just using different words. My point, is that the Congress would prevail in defending their power to do this... that is all.

    A court would need to decide this. You and I will just have to agree to disagree.
    sticking to mine, i can give you the founders on the commerce clause, and they tell us it about buying and selling, not loans.

    foreign aid is not a debt of the federal government , and it is not a power of the federal government.

  7. #187
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sticking to mine, i can give you the founders on the commerce clause, and they tell us it about buying and selling, not loans.

    foreign aid is not a debt of the federal government , and it is not a power of the federal government.
    As I said before, I agree in some ways. I don't know why you would want to continue an argument that I have basically agreed with, but have only stated that it can be argued in court by the Congress that they in fact have that power. I'm not stating that they do, just that they can easily argue that they do.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are mistaken
    Republicans

    Shutdown Poll: No winners but GOP bigger loser than Dems – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

    Need I go on, or do these two samples of dozens of others give you enough crow to eat?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    What per chance would those great ideas be that Congress has?
    They've refused any discussion on the floor for four years now.

    Just as they have zero ideas on the floor to fix or replace ACA.
    Nor did they even touch their outgoing Ways and Means chair's bill on tax reform.

    You really can't be serious that this next Congress has a clue on how to solve anything can you?



    That would be patently untrue and you know it.
    If you don't like Sen. Rubio's bill, pass your own and go to Joint-Conference--something all of you GOP Constitutionalists should be about.

    But this GOP has no intention of doing that.
    They fully intend to use the immigration problem as an electoral weapon in 2016, just as they did in 2014 .
    You really DON'T have any idea where the House Republicans stand on immigration reform, do you? I'm really surprised, NIMBY...

    This is from way back in January:

    The principles stress interior and border enforcement must be enacted before mechanisms to legalization can begin and notes that Republicans do not favor a “special pathway” to citizenship for anyone who illegally traversed the border into the United States. However, it does present options for those roughly 11 million immigrants living in the country.

    ~

    A GOP aide contrasted this piece-by-piece style with the Senate’s immigration bill, which was more than 1,200 pages long, and emphasized that leaders intend to make sure members and constituents understand each step of the immigration process before moving on to the next principle.

    There's more in that article...you would do well to read it.

    Boehner Releases Immigration Principles (Updated) | 218
    Now, to be sure, Boehner doesn't have complete agreement with his fellow Republicans in the House, but that's to be expected and that's something he will need to go through the process of dealing with. That's just the way our legislative system works. But, above all, he shouldn't...and I don't believe he will...be held hostage to some EO threat by Obama and be forced to do what he doesn't want to do.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  10. #190
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    An EO can be found Unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. The house could not fund the EO or Congress can just pass their own bill - which I'm sure Obama would veto and then Congress would need the 2/3 majority to overturn the veto which probably won't happen.
    Yes. There are many options at this point. That's what makes this thread a waste of time...except for the fun of speculation and the arguments that result.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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