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Thread: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Once again, the republican leadership has already stated their priorities, immigration "reform" not being one of them. Besides, we don't need reform, we need an executive that will enforce the law. You know, his oath, his actual job.
    I.e

    Enforce a policy that treats those who enter the country illiegally like wild dogs.
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Why would someone who has broken US law get a guarantee like that?
    Why subject a family to the inhumanity of seperation?
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    And every time you post to me tres borrachos, you use my name, which I didn't with you until now.
    I won't bother anymore since that's your style and it is clear what you're trying to do.

    And yes Obama inherited a horrific immigration problem as with all the other remainders from last decade.
    And yes, the GOP has put up fierce resistance to solving any of these problems for six years.
    Loyal opposition my ass .

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Call you out? You posted to me first, Nimby. I never posted to you first.

    I never said anything about votes. I asked a question, and a filibuster proof majority or not doesn't change what I'm asking.

    Obama promised to tackle immigration in 2009. His words, not mine.
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And every time you post to me tres borrachos, you use my name, which I didn't with you until now.
    I won't bother anymore since that's your style and it is clear what you're trying to do.

    And yes Obama inherited a horrific immigration problem as with all the other remainders from last decade.
    And yes, the GOP has put up fierce resistance to solving any of these problems for six years.
    Loyal opposition my ass .
    So posting your name gets you upset?
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Why subject a family to the inhumanity of seperation?
    Sending them all back is not inhumane. Requiring them to follow US law to legally immigrate is not inhumane. They broke the law; there's no guarantee.... If they wanted a guarantee they wouldn't have risked knowingly breaking the law.

    Don't think me callous - of course it's a risk many are willing to take - but there is no reason to guarantee anything. What you think is inhumane is irrelevant and subjective.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Why subject a family to the inhumanity of seperation?
    If a father is convicted of murder and goes to jail, the inhumanity of separation happens. If both parents are convicted of murder, it does as well. I don't think "inhumanity of family separation" is supposed to be taken into account during the application of laws, is it?
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What garentee do we give to those who are afraid of being separated from their families during the deportation process?
    Well one, I think it's the wrong question. There's no "guarantee" that needs to be given to any person in this country illegally; but there should be to those you're trying to win support from in government. I'd say you make it policy that Husbands and Wives are required to be transported together, and that any children they have under the age of 18 will be required to be transported with them as well. I'd also suggest it should be Standard Operating Procedure to attempt to transport as many related individuals togehter WHEN possible, but the only ones REQUIRED to be transported together would be husband/wife/children under 18.

    Those over 18 are offered all 3 choices and are adults. Again, we should endevour to keep their trasnport with their relatives as much as possible, but if it isn't logistically feasible then so be it.

    Those parents with Children under the age of 18, and those children are U.S. Citizens, have the choice to either have the child come with them (in which case the government will pick up the bill for their transport, just as if we were deporting them) or enter the children into the orphanage systems we already have place in this country until such point that they are legally allowed to return to the country.

    Most likely, with a streamlined legal immigration law, the best choice for such parents in the second paragraph would be to take option 2 (go home and be absolved of all immigration related crimes), have their US Citizen child come with them, and then utilize the fact the child is a US Citizen as a means of apply for legal entry into the country through the proper system.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    That is a budget issue. And there is no budget. A President may not "fail to faithfully execute" laws. Let's agree that the President's motives with this proposed/potential/who knows what it is going to be executive order are not budgetary. He is happy to spend into the red when it suits him to do so.

    If funding is the problem, then amnesty is NOT the solution.
    Obama argues, quite successfully, that he "lacks resources" to deport more than about 400K illegals per year. Congress does not contest that. Using that limit as the basis, Obama seeks to exclude deportation of those illegals that he deems lower risk for the sole purpose of deporting more illegals that he deems higher risk. To avoid having to decide each such low risk case again (possibly multiple times) he will issue "I am okey dokey" passes to those illegal aliens deemed currently unworthy of deportation.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    So? Once again, the failure of the congress to take up an issue does not grant the executive the power to legislate.
    Obama has recognized that it is the power of congress to create immigration laws, by stating to congress he wants one for the last several years. however he knows he cannot get one he desires, so now he seeks to go around congress and enact his own , even though the last several years he has acknowledged its a power of congress.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    congress is granted authority for delegated powers, there is no power to give foreign aid...

    money collected must be used to pay the debts of the government for its delegated powers.

    commerce, what does the buying and selling of goods have to do with foreign aid?
    I fully understand your point, and in some ways agree with it. That is why I said in my original response to you that we should have tighter strings attached to the money.

    However, to your point about commerce... if we loan money to foreign countries, we get interest for that loan - that is commerce. If we GIVE money to foreign countries, in return for actions that we require they make (like not assisting our foes) then that is the same as buying their services - that is commerce.

    My point is, that it would not be difficult at all for the Congress to argue in court that the aid they send to other countries is within their power to regulate commerce with foreign nations. Not that I agree or disagree with foreign aid through and by this argument, just that it's possible to be argued and won in court rather easily.
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