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Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

And I already found the thing i need to justify my position: my empathy towards the suffering, what I have been brought to believe.

I believe it is wrong to treat every criminal with the same merciless treatment reserved for real scumbags like geoglffry dahmer or al Capone. I especially believe that justice should be measured enough to show restraint.

There's actually an image attached here. It's the world's smallest violin, to play along with your hyperbolic drama. Dial it back, no one is suggesting chains, tar and feathers or the death penalty.
 
Not me. I don't want any more bridge collapses. I don't want sink holes on our highways. I don't want veterans waiting for treatment any longer than they already are. I don't want science research stopped. I don't want a halt to immigration enforcement. There are a lot of things I don't want to happen that can happen if the government shuts down. I used to be strongly libertarian until I realized that too little government is just as bad as too much government. I still have libertarian leanings but Randism and Anarcho-Capitalism are not among them.

i am not calling for shutdown, however we have millions of laws on the books, more is not going to improve things.
 
i am not calling for shutdown, however we have millions of laws on the books, more is not going to improve things.

Yea, too many laws suck, but shutting down the government, and causing havoc, along with the loss of billions of dollars per day, is not a good way to protest too much government. On the things they don't agree on, I believe Obama will use executive power when he can, starting with immigration.

Seriously, I think what is going to happen is that McConnell and Obama will come to an agreement on the things they both believe they can do together. Can't say that the House will be thinking along the same lines, though. We will have to wait and see.
 
Sure, if Obama made unreasonable demands, then it would be his fault. However, if the GOP makes the same kind of unreasonable demands, then it will be their fault. Logic 101 here.
Define unreasonable. Obama, for instance, will define 'unreasonable' as ANY move to alter Obamacare or impact negatively anything he wants. Defunding certain aspects of an unpopular and horrible health care law seems quite reasonable, as is defunding any attempt by Obama to go around congress on immigration. So unreasonableness is in the eye of the beholder. Logic 201 here. You should have continued at least one more semester.
 
Define unreasonable. Obama, for instance, will define 'unreasonable' as ANY move to alter Obamacare or impact negatively anything he wants. Defunding certain aspects of an unpopular and horrible health care law seems quite reasonable, as is defunding any attempt by Obama to go around congress on immigration. So unreasonableness is in the eye of the beholder. Logic 201 here. You should have continued at least one more semester.

Obamacare is here to stay, whether you like it or not. The GOP will ensure their utter defeat in 2016 if they attempt to defund it.
 
Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.

You're just teasing me, aren't you? No way the REpublicans could be dumb enough to shut down the government again. Stop getting my hopes up.
 
Not me. I don't want any more bridge collapses. I don't want sink holes on our highways. I don't want veterans waiting for treatment any longer than they already are. I don't want science research stopped. I don't want a halt to immigration enforcement. There are a lot of things I don't want to happen that can happen if the government shuts down. I used to be strongly libertarian until I realized that too little government is just as bad as too much government. I still have libertarian leanings but Randism and Anarcho-Capitalism are not among them.
We really don't have a problem with too little government, now do we--as the idea of a partial shutdown of a week or two causing the supposed havoc you listed demonstrates.
 
That's because Dems controlled the Senate. Now watch as the Republicans do the same. It's really both parties at fault, but if the Senate cannot pass a bill that can be signed, then Congress will take the hit on the fallout again if the government shuts down. There is one remedy for the GOP. That is to win the presidency in 2016, if they can. Then there will truly be a mandate.

There is no way, short of an asteroid wiping out the west coast and/or the Northeast, that the republicans can win the white house in 2016. Demographics make it almost impossible for them to do so. The recent mid-terms saw about a 52% voter turnout. The Presidential election will add at least 20 points to that.
 
Obamacare is here to stay, whether you like it or not. The GOP will ensure their utter defeat in 2016 if they attempt to defund it.

Lol. Right. Tell me, why would those who try to remove from the books a horrible law that is wildly unpopular with the American people be defeated by those same American people for doing so? You know that makes no sense, right?
 
We really don't have a problem with too little government, now do we--as the idea of a partial shutdown of a week or two causing the supposed havoc you listed demonstrates.

I mean, if your idea is to take all of the laws, and consolidate them, and rewrite them more clearly and concisely... I'm with you. I'd like that. It makes sense.

But the idea that you think "oh we have too much legislation so we can't add more without taking any off" is a bit naive. We have a lot of legislation because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be legislated.
 
Not me. I don't want any more bridge collapses. I don't want sink holes on our highways. I don't want veterans waiting for treatment any longer than they already are. I don't want science research stopped. I don't want a halt to immigration enforcement. There are a lot of things I don't want to happen that can happen if the government shuts down. I used to be strongly libertarian until I realized that too little government is just as bad as too much government. I still have libertarian leanings but Randism and Anarcho-Capitalism are not among them.

Don't worry Dan. You're still weird to me man! :peace
 
There is no way, short of an asteroid wiping out the west coast and/or the Northeast, that the republicans can win the white house in 2016. Demographics make it almost impossible for them to do so. The recent mid-terms saw about a 52% voter turnout. The Presidential election will add at least 20 points to that.
I will take that bet. Heres why: Hillary "sniper fire" Clinton will be the nominee for the dems and 2016 will be a repeat of 2008. Hillary will look old, tired, out of ideas and a continuation of the unpopular incumbent--just like McCain. Republicans don't have an Obama on their bench, but a younger, energetic, inspiring candidate will fill the bill. Clinton is beatable. Very beatable. Shes not a great campaigner and not particularly likeable. Don't get me wrong, republicans cant put up a stiff. But a Hillary 2016 candidacy isn't going to inspire anyone.
 
I will take that bet. Heres why: Hillary "sniper fire" Clinton will be the nominee for the dems and 2016 will be a repeat of 2008. Hillary will look old, tired, out of ideas and a continuation of the unpopular incumbent--just like McCain. Republicans don't have an Obama on their bench, but a younger, energetic, inspiring candidate will fill the bill. Clinton is beatable. Very beatable. Shes not a great campaigner and not particularly likeable. Don't get me wrong, republicans cant put up a stiff. But a Hillary 2016 candidacy isn't going to inspire anyone.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Hillary is the 2016 nominee.
 
I mean, if your idea is to take all of the laws, and consolidate them, and rewrite them more clearly and concisely... I'm with you. I'd like that. It makes sense.

But the idea that you think "oh we have too much legislation so we can't add more without taking any off" is a bit naive. We have a lot of legislation because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be legislated.
Undoing laws is very difficult and sometimes dangerous as 2008 demonstrated. Just as with the writing of every law there are unforeseen consequences, the same is true for taking them off the books. Laws become intertwined and one builds off another. Its like the game of pick-up-sticks. You can remove some without impacting others. But pull a stick from the bottom of the pile and the game is over.
 
I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Hillary is the 2016 nominee.
Who else is out there? Jim Webb might be running, but he is too conservative to make it through the primaries I would think
 
You're just teasing me, aren't you? No way the REpublicans could be dumb enough to shut down the government again. Stop getting my hopes up.

Sure then can. On any government shutdown congress usually comes out on the losing end of the stick. President's are viewed as the winners. But each side in reality comes out worst for it than when it went in. In October of 2013 I think almost everyone would concede the president and the Democrats won. But the presidents approval rating dropped from 46% to 41%. The Republican Party fell from 38 to 28% favorable while the Democrats fell from 43 to 38%.

There is not doubt the Democrats and the president won. but the president hasn't recovered. He is still at the same 41% he was back at the end of the shut down. The Republican party has risen to 40% to day which is 2 points higher than when they went into the shut down. The Democratic party has also recovered, it is at 44% 1 point higher.
 
I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Hillary is the 2016 nominee.

unless something happens to her health...really?

i would give odds that she easily wins the nomination

Clinton - - the former first lady, U.S. senator and secretary of state - - is currently the clear favorite to win the presidency in 2016 with 5/4 odds from PaddyPower.com, a popular sports gambling site. Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor, comes in second place with 8/1 odds. Neither politician has officially announced a run, but if Bush were elected, he would take office 28 years after his father and only eight years after his older brother bowed out.

Hillary Clinton In 2016? Betting Odds For Next Presidential Election Include Bush, Rubio, Christie, Paul And Warren
 
Obamacare is here to stay, whether you like it or not. The GOP will ensure their utter defeat in 2016 if they attempt to defund it.

If this logic is correct then frankly they've ensured their defeat by winning in 2014, since they won in 2014 on the backs of promises to defund and attempt to tear down and replace Obamacare.

So taking your logic...if they do what they've actually campaigned to do (let's get this on the record, Dana is on the record supporting Politicians, for purely political reasons lying to their constitutents and refusing to do what they campaigned to) they'll lose big in 2016....and realistically, if they give the big middle finger to their constituents and refuse to even TRY to do what they were elected to do then they'll probably ALSO lose in 2016.
 
Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.

Yeah, plenty of polls indicated that the public blamed the GOP for the Government shutdown (despite being both GOP and Dems fault).

Well, where are the GOP now?
 
If this logic is correct then frankly they've ensured their defeat by winning in 2014, since they won in 2014 on the backs of promises to defund and attempt to tear down and replace Obamacare.

So taking your logic...if they do what they've actually campaigned to do (let's get this on the record, Dana is on the record supporting Politicians, for purely political reasons lying to their constitutents and refusing to do what they campaigned to) they'll lose big in 2016....and realistically, if they give the big middle finger to their constituents and refuse to even TRY to do what they were elected to do then they'll probably ALSO lose in 2016.

IMO, your logic is impeccable.

The GOP is screwed in 2016
 
If they really wanted to stop immigration, which is mostly indigenous (indians) from Mexico, they could push the Mexican government to give them better land deals, cancel NAFTA, CAFTA, or other strange trade agreements that cut out the indigenous and mess up their farming with subsidized American corn, and also legalize marijuana to stop drug cartels from scaring people to flee Mexico. The indigenous in Mexico number in the millions.
 
Obamacare is here to stay, whether you like it or not. The GOP will ensure their utter defeat in 2016 if they attempt to defund it.
Well, according to your predictions like the midterms, yours have been missing the mark.
 
Well, according to your predictions like the midterms, yours have been missing the mark.

I was closer than most. I predicted GOP with 52 seats.
 
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