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Thread: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

  1. #111
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The House could have been working on this IR since they went on vacation last July 31st.
    The House could have been working on any small step this past year but stopped when Cantor got voted out for trying the most baby of small steps.

    The problem since the 2011 grand-bargain fell through is that Boehner has no control of his own caucus.
    He refuses to act in any way without 218 votes from his own caucus.
    Which you and I both know he still can't get .
    Ummm...how can the House work on a bill when they are on vacation? Also, they've had other things on their mind...just like the Democrats...the past few months, like that election.

    That's the big fallacy of the "but the Republicans aren't doing anything" argument. Heck, if you want to go that route, why didn't the Democrats pass something when they had a total lock on the government in 2009?
    Last edited by Mycroft; 11-17-14 at 02:57 PM.
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Rumors of Obama issuing green cards by EO are as lacking in credibility as the idea that he is going to naturalize immigrants by EO.

    Heck, why don't we speculate that he's going to give citizenship to invaders from Mars while we're at it?
    For sure...at this point, until Obama actually announces his EO action, it's all rumors. But the green card rumor doesn't lack credibility. After all, he's ordered millions of the things to be printed and delivered.
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There are rumors that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. That doesn't make that worthy of discussion.
    Actually it was wildly discussed quite a bit on this forum when the idiocy first started making headway.

    You are whining about other people posting about things you consider irrelevant (but aren't) while promoting the wildest of incredible rumors which are not relevant to a reasonable (ie based on facts) discussion.
    Where have I complained about people posting stuff that is irrelevant to the topic? I've had an issue with someone strawmanning me, because that's a poor debate tactic. I did not say that whether or not the house passing a bill on immigration reform is irrelevant to the topic (It's not). I said it's irrelevant to the post he quoted from me, which was a discussion with iguanaman, on whether or not it's a politicians "constitutional duty" to not support something he thinks is "wrong for america"....which it absolutely IS irrelevant to. Whether or not the house passed an immigration bill is 100% irrelevant to whether or not it's a politicans constitutional duty to deny support for something they feel is wrong for the country.

    If my pointing out the fact that your speculations have no reasonable nor credible basis in reality annoy *you*
    Doesn't annoy me, it's just confusing in the ridiculousness of pointing out something I've already acknowledged. It's like me saying the sky is blue and you popping up to go "YEAH! Well, the sky is blue! WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? HUH!?"

    I've acknowledged, repeatedly now, that it's unlikely that he actually goes the route of naturalization or a step along that path. But this thread is about a government shut down, so I was referencing the only way I'd support such a thing in relation to the rumors (and EVERYTHING at this point on the matter is a rumor, which I've again repeatedly) while acknowlding the reality is it's likely something less than that and as such a shutdown would be wrong.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The President is being forced to act because the House hasn't acted.
    Iguanaman's comment and my back and forth with him was not regarding executive orders, but rather the potentail immigrations that congress could pass possibly in counter to such things. This is why you continue to strawman, because you clearly didn't bother to read the exchange.

    His comment was regarding what the President should do IF a bill is passed, specifically that he should veto it if he feels it's "wrong for america". It wasn't about executive actions. Your continued strawmanning just highlights the fact you're acting on a knee jerk reaction to my post as opposed to actually bothering to read the discussion that was occuring. It's sad that you just continue to double down on the fallacy laden posts as opposed ot actually admitting your error.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?
    Health reform.
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually it was wildly discussed quite a bit on this forum when the idiocy first started making headway.
    The fact that it was discussed didn't make it any less idiotic, just as the way the issuance of citizenship or green cards doesn't become any less idiotic to speculate about because people (including you) are discussing it.

    Where have I complained about people posting stuff that is irrelevant to the topic? I've had an issue with someone strawmanning me, because that's a poor debate tactic. I did not say that whether or not the house passing a bill on immigration reform is irrelevant to the topic (It's not). I said it's irrelevant to the post he quoted from me, which was a discussion with iguanaman, on whether or not it's a politicians "constitutional duty" to not support something he thinks is "wrong for america"....which it absolutely IS irrelevant to. Whether or not the house passed an immigration bill is 100% irrelevant to whether or not it's a politicans constitutional duty to deny support for something they feel is wrong for the country.
    I looked back at the posts, and you're right. I misunderstood your comments. My bad.


    Doesn't annoy me, it's just confusing in the ridiculousness of pointing out something I've already acknowledged. It's like me saying the sky is blue and you popping up to go "YEAH! Well, the sky is blue! WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? HUH!?"

    I've acknowledged, repeatedly now, that it's unlikely that he actually goes the route of naturalization or a step along that path. But this thread is about a government shut down, so I was referencing the only way I'd support such a thing in relation to the rumors (and EVERYTHING at this point on the matter is a rumor, which I've again repeatedly) while acknowlding the reality is it's likely something less than that and as such a shutdown would be wrong.
    I am glad to hear that it doesn't annoy you because I intend on continuing to point out the absurdity of such hackish speculation

    And it's not "likely something less than that" It's pretty much guaranteed because, as you have pointed out, granting permanent residency or citizenship are powers POTUS does not possess.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Health reform.

    Claim That Obama Did Nothing About Immigration Reform Not True | Blog | Media Matters for America
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?
    Priorities health reform before anything else. While both sides enjoy going with the "You can do more than one thing at a time" argument when it suits them, the reality is that passing major legislation is an extremely tasking situation that is incredibly time consuming. He utilized all his political capital he had focused no health care reform, and it took quite a while in large part becuase there wasn't even completely agreement within his own party on how to move forward with it. The reality is that Immigration would've likely resulted in a VERY similar fight, where despite the super majority it would still have been a massive undertaking to just whip his own party into agreement.

    That doesn't mean it's unreasonable to questoin why he didn't prioritize it higher, or more specific to this instance why...after 6 years...it MUST happen now. But it is a pretty understandable answer to why it wasn't done in 2009. You can only take on so many major undertakings at one time.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Priorities health reform before anything else. While both sides enjoy going with the "You can do more than one thing at a time" argument when it suits them, the reality is that passing major legislation is an extremely tasking situation that is incredibly time consuming. He utilized all his political capital he had focused no health care reform, and it took quite a while in large part becuase there wasn't even completely agreement within his own party on how to move forward with it. The reality is that Immigration would've likely resulted in a VERY similar fight, where despite the super majority it would still have been a massive undertaking to just whip his own party into agreement.

    That doesn't mean it's unreasonable to questoin why he didn't prioritize it higher, or more specific to this instance why...after 6 years...it MUST happen now. But it is a pretty understandable answer to why it wasn't done in 2009. You can only take on so many major undertakings at one time.
    Not sure I agree with this. Multitasking isn't a skill only those of us in the private sector need to rely on in order to do our jobs. Not all 200+ Democratic Congresspersons and 60 Democratic Senators spent all day every day writing the content of the ACA.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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