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US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

Middleground said:
****, recent history is a clear indication of "ramifications."
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Recent history is a clear indication of the ramifications of inaction. No matter what you think, education and tolerance isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
 
apdst said:
Recent history is a clear indication of the ramifications of inaction. No matter what you think, education and tolerance isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
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Speaking of recent history, certainly bombing them ain't the answer.
 
Middleground said:
Speaking of recent history, certainly bombing them ain't the answer.
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Because we're making a half assed attempt at bombing them. Have you ever tried to drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer? Doesn't work too well, does it?
 
US Conservative said:
RIP. Life is cheap under ISIS, and Obama has allowed ISIS to flourish. These attacks will continue until our weak President decides to get serious.
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Nonsense. Honestly, turn down right wing radio.
 
apdst said:
If you kill enough of them, the demand will shrink. There was once a huge demand for Nazis. After we got done with them, not so much.

Half-assed action, or no action at all won't work. I believe we've all seen that, by now.
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That is not the approach that was ever taken by the US government in Iraq. In WWII we did not declare war on Nazis - we declared war on the nations that spawned (or allied with) them. That is a huge difference in the definition of demand. We now try to fight a war in Iraq yet not against Iraq - a huge difference indeed.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is not the approach that was ever taken by the US government in Iraq. In WWII we did not declare war on Nazis - we declared war on the nations that spawned them. That is a huge difference in the definition of demand. We now try to fight a war in Iraq yet not against Iraq - a huge difference indeed.
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Declarations of war are irrelevant. ISIS is the enemy and we need to destroy them, with as much violence as possible. The kid gloves approach only encourages them.
 
apdst said:
Because we're making a half assed attempt at bombing them. Have you ever tried to drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer? Doesn't work too well, does it?
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And attacking an ideology does not work either. One cannot bomb an ideology. Al Qaida and the Taliban laugh.
 
Middleground said:
And attacking an ideology does not work either. One cannot bomb an ideology. Al Qaida and the Taliban laugh.
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It worked like a arm during WW2. We attacked the **** out of Facism. How much are the facists laughing, now?

We had the jihadists on the run, until we broke off the attack.
 
They killed a convert to Islam. (!)
What happened to "Convert or Die"?
I guess not applicable to Americans.
Undoubtedly, this former Army Ranger had converted just to help alleviate suffering.

Islamic State Video Claims Beheading of American Peter Kassig - WSJ - WSJ

"...Mr. Kassig founded a nongovernment organization, Special Emergency Relief and Assistance, in September 2012 to provide the aid. The Kassig family has released photographs of their son smiling with truckloads of medical supplies destined for Syria’s neediest and patching up maimed Syrians in hospital beds.

Islamic State’s threats to killed Mr. Kassig over the past few months had been met with outrage from Syrian rebels and civilians, who praised the 26-year-old American for his efforts to provide medical attention to victims of the war.
[.......]
The Indiana native was kidnapped in October 2013 as he delivered aid to eastern Deir Ezzour province.

During the past year, he converted to Islam and adopted the name Abdul Rahman, Arabic for “servant of the merciful.” He prayed and fasted during the holy month of Ramadan, according to fellow Western captives who were freed by Islamic State after their governments paid ransoms to the group, according to reports from friends.

Mr. Kassig’s dedication to helping Syrians in need was more powerful than his fear of traveling to the war torn country as kidnappings of foreigners mounted, friends and family said. He was a former U.S. Army Ranger whose deployment in Iraq had affected him tremendously and influenced him to embrace pacifism, they said.

Friends said they had tried to talk him out of making his last trip to Syria from his base in southern Turkey in October 2013. The political landscape in Syria had changed by then, and Islamic State was routing the rebels and civilians who had protected Mr. Kassig during previous trips.

“If I do die, I figure that at least you and I can seek refuge and comfort in knowing that I went out as a result of trying to alleviate suffering and helping those in need,” Mr. Kassig wrote to his family in a letter they received in June.
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Looks like the Butcher May be the same suspect/British Rapper as the other videos:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...ary-investigated-police-hunt-jihadi-john.html
Abdel-Majed%20Abdel%20Bary.jpg
 
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Black Dog said:
And this has anything to do with anything? Personal attacks are nothing but the refuge of those with no real argument.

PS it was just a typo. Great argument. [/sarcasm]
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You accused someone of a personal attack after you just claimed to have forgotten more than they know. Do you know the definition of the word, hypocrite?
 
Middleground said:
And??? If you don't think that ISIS had nothing to do wit the American Iraqi invasion, then you are not very well informed.
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They came out of Syria and Syria is 100% on Obama's watch. Once again your attempt to blame Bush is pathetic.
 
Amadeus said:
We're not allowed to blame Bush. It's been 6 years, and if Obama can't clean up the Middle East in that amount of time, it's time to give the job back to Republicans. What this situation needs is some good ol' Texas backbone.
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Therein lies the problem. What is it to "clean up the Middle East"? Still to this very day everyone cannot agree on the mission for Bush's War. We had several stated missions, sometimes they changed, there was either a lot of mission creep or there wasn't a hard and clearly defined mission (not a public one anyway).

I don't mean to argue it here but IF Bush had followed the Constitutional mandate, IF Obama had follow the Constitutional mandate we probably would have had or currently have a clearly defined mission - OR we wouldn't be there today. Only Congress can declare war. There has been no formal declaration of war. No national unity for which to be committed, no national sacrifice, no clearly defined mission. If you don't understand the necessity of your mission, if it is not clearly defined you don't then have a clearly defined exit strategy.

Bush did not have a clear mission and he damn sure didn't have a clear exit strategy. Obama ran on the promise, among other things, to pull troops out of Iraq and end our direct involvement in the mess that we created. That didn't happen. We remain. Our physical commitment about to grow again. Obama then went to Congress and asked for a war on ISIS or ISIL. There was no formal declaration of war. I don't know how there could be in that regard. And the mission? Not clearly defined.

It is my opinion that most Americans would prefer to be the hell out of the region. Beheadings are being conducted publicly to keep Americans in the region. For more than a few Americans the sensationalism seems to work.
 
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matchlight said:
I read about that. My first thought was that they cut it too fine in choosing the size of the bomb, out of the same exaggerated concern for civilian casualties that's hampered the U.S. military all along in fighting these people. There is no way a very large bomb leaves anyone at a meeting just wounded. This was not an enormous U-boat pen at Peenemunde they were attacking, with a reinforced concrete roof sixteen feet thick. The fact such important figures were allowed to survive, once they'd been pinpointed, is a serious blunder. Thanks to President Pinprick for keeping everyone on such a short leash they can't do the job right.
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Do you even HEAR yourself? You read about a successful attack on 10 ISIS leaders and your first thought was that he did it wrong.

Dood...seriously. Maybe its you.
 
CMPancake said:
How has our President been weak in terms of handling ISIS, and what does it mean to get serious?
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For starters his loss of the Iraq war for votes, followed by allowing ISIS to fill the vacuum of our withdrawal, and then his tepid response to ISIS and other groups in Syria and Iraq, followed by his refusal to fight them now in any meaningful way (airstrikes are now and can not be definitive).

What he needs to do is send back in a military presence (this wont be fighting Iraq over again, but it WILL get worse the longer we delay) and make it clear that we will finish the mission, not leave according to a calendar. As disturbing, he wants to do the same in Afghanistan. He'd lose a war for politics in a heartbeat and he has.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's so incredibly lazy that you just waltz in here to hurl insults at Obama but can't seem to lay out what should be done. I mean is that all you people do around here? Whine about Obama without providing any kind of substance?

Did you realize there were beheadings under Bush? Did you cry about him being weak? Selective outrage.
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Im sorry but you are mistaken. I am not POTUS. I can criticize away as I see fit, it does NOT make my criticism invalid.

The FACT here, is we have a POTUS unable to do anything substantive. This will likely not change unless there is another major US attack, or a new POTUS is elected in 2016. Which means no definitive response until 2017 at the earliest.

Obama has willingly left our former allies alone, and he's allowed a TERRORIST STATE to aggressively grow across Asia and Africa. Thats real.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I know man, I can't believe these people. It seems like DP is just a place for lazy old people to shake their fist angrily and whine about Obama without providing any actual constructive input. It's a tragedy this happened but on no ****ing planet is this Obama's fault. Why don't we blame the mother ****ers that did this instead?

Or if we want to get really creative why don't we blame the guy who destabilized the region by invading it?
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That is not my burden, I can criticize away. And Im 34. :2wave:
 
joG said:
One problem we have is that we cannot stop the terrorists. These movements go on and on. When I was a kid they were already targeting Americans. So we can wipe up the mess in Syria and Iraq for maybe $ 1/2 trillion. But we are not willing to do the nastiness necessary to quiet the bad guys for good.
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Nothing is ever guaranteed, including success. There wont be a day when terrorism stops, but there WILL be days when it gets worse for more and more people. Today that is ISIS. A rapidly growing islamist supremacy state. THAT is not where we can allow this war to go.

There is no equivocation here-one side is evil, and its up to the west to decide where it stands.
 
VanceMack said:
Much as I love pointing out the many flaws and weaknesses of Obama, I dont know what more Obama can do right now. He underestimated the threat of ISIS...sure. He mishandled the Iraqi troop pullout, screwed up the negotiation process which involved leaving a significant deterrent force in place, (ignoring even his own political advisers) true. But...after ISIS began rolling he engaged and is still engaging using really the only tools at his disposal. If he goes in full bore, guns blazing, people on the right will be critical of engaging. If he does nothing, people on the right will be critical of doing nothing. His Obots will defend him no matter what but many on the left will just accuse him of going to war to appease the eeeeevil right wing neocons. And as of this writing, the world doesnt appear to be lining up to help out. Realistically, the drone attacks and air strikes are his best option.
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His response is tepid (as most things he does), meant only as a high visibility way of suggesting he is doing something. We have only been engaging in a small fraction of our capabilities, and we have no troops on the ground when troops on the ground are REQUIRED to win wars.

Its a dog an pony show, for votes-right up Obama's alley.
 
Middleground said:
For ****'s sake, the Bush Administration helped create ISIS. :doh

My sincere condolences to the friends and family of Mr. Kassig.
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The Obama admin REALLY helped create ISIS, and now it has its own bit of real estate as well. This image is from 2 weeks ago-and its growing. Terror flourishes under Obama-FACT.
1024px-Territorial_control_of_the_ISIS.svg.png
 
Jetboogieman said:
Very sad news, another selfless individual, just there to help, senselessly murdered by an organization of pure evil.

It's also pretty sad people want to use this as a political football, but it's the usual, juvenile lot that are incapable of viewing the world through any other prism except their politics.

There aren't many black and white moments in a world full of contradiction and contrast, where one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter etc.

But in this case, often a rarity, we really do have an organization, that is evil and that must be wiped out from the face of the Earth.
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Politics has done much to make this situation what it is. If you dont believe this, what do you think the response would be from a republican POTUS? Would it be the same limp response?

I agree that this is pure evil and must be exposed to large amounts of kinetic energy-but by whom? If the world can't or wont step up, who then? If its left to the US, should we? What if its unpopular, what then?
 
shrubnose said:
ISIS didn't exist before G.W. Bush invaded Iraq, which was no threat to the USA. :roll:

The only country that gained anything from that war is Iran, which was glad to see its fellow Shia Muslims take power there.
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ISIS didn't exist (except in small numbers, mainly in syria) until Obama pulled out of Iraq and lost the peace. And I disagree-ISIS gained as well.
 
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