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Thread: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

  1. #321
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You haven't demolished anything, except in your overactive imagination. I can see your weak-sister messiah's current troubles are making you and his other acolytes more and more desperate to cook up far-fetched excuses for him. In fact the excuses coming from you and other members of his rear guard sound much like his own--and are just about as believable.

    The notion the U.S. had no choice but to hang its head meekly and do whatever Maliki's government told it to is laughable. That pisspot government was in no position to tell the U.S. anything--it never even would have existed if this country had not invaded and driven Hussein's regime from power. It was Mr. Obama who was determined to withdraw all U.S. forces, because he thought it would gain him a political advantage. He found it convenient to hide his own wish to throw in the towel behind the claim that Bush and Maliki had left him no choice. That was just one more of his lies.

    Your attempt to cover President Limpwrist's fanny isn't fooling anyone. Are you so ignorant of postwar history that you really imagine U.S. Presidents haven't sometimes had to ignore loud resistance from countries where U.S. troops were stationed, and insist on keeping them there, when they were sure it was in our national interest? Next you'll be claiming that the tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Korea were only able to stay there all these years because from 1953 on, South Koreans and their leaders unfailingly loved the U.S. and wanted it there.

    I suppose that if any South Korean leader had ever so much as raised his voice or wagged a finger, President Eisenhower would never have told them very clearly how things were going to be. No doubt Ike would have burst into tears, fallen all over himself apologizing for being so intrusive and insensitive, and explained to Americans that he had no choice but to pull all our troops out right away. And then, if a new Korean War had broken out as a result, I suppose Eisenhower would have shrugged helplessly and told the nation, "It's not my fault. Those mean South Koreans made me do it--they said we had to go, or they would punish our soldiers in their courts when they got into trouble in a bar or something! What else could I do but comply?"
    So, if I'm reading you right, the United States should have just told Iraq to go screw itself, even though a vast majority of people both here and there didn't want us there, and because Obama didn't do that (never mind that he would have been skewered both domestically and internationally if he had), everything that's happened since in that region is all his fault. Wow, you drive a hard bargain.

    The Bush Administration negotiated a leave date. The Obama administration adhered to those terms, and didn't budge off a complete non-starter that you know damn well would have made you apoplectic, so anything that's happened since is his fault. Not Maliki's in any way ... just his. Amazing.

    Shove your "messiah" talk directly up your own ass. Leaving American troops fighting a war on behalf of a puppet government subject to the edicts of said government is out of the question and you damn well know it.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  2. #322
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Still not following the conversation are you? What they wanted was to deny the US soldiers extraterritoriality. Your own source confirmed that there would be no agreement from the Iraqi government AT ANY LEVEL if the US had extraterritoriality. Their fears of what would happen are irrelevant, as long as they would not afford extraterritoriality, no US troop should touch Iraqi soil. That was the right decision. That 3 years after they reaped what they sowed is their problem.
    You are picking and choosing here pal. My point (backed by my citation) is that OBAMA HAD ALTERNATE ROUTES HE COULD HAVE TAKEN BUT DID NOT.
    Obama is not a disinterested spectator here-he could have acted but did not-and THIS MESS HAPPENED as a result.

    When you tell your enemy you are leaving, you are saying stick around until the coast is clear. Thats what Obama did and an awful lot of people are dying every day as a result. Thats not good enough, especially when he's going to double down on the fail in Afghanistan.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    You lost me on that one Vance.

    During the early years in the RVN, the PLF (VC) were waging a terrorist war against the civilian population. Mostly targeting civilians and local government officials. I think it was in 1961 was the first time when the VC would actually engage ARVAN in combat.

    North Vietnam and the NVA troops didn't enter the RVN until 1965. Then the war was about taking ground and holding it. Until the VC and NVA got their butts whooped big time during Tet of 68. That's when Gen. Giap acknowledged that the American soldier couldn't be defeated on the battlefield.

    After Walter Cronkite lied to the American people, Uncle Hoe and Gen, Giap came up with a new strategy, attrition. It was no longer taking ground and trying to hold it. It was kill as many Americans as possible then haul ass to their sanctuary across the border into Cambodia and Laos. North Vietnam knew eventually the American people would get tired of all of the American casualties and tired of the war. Basic how to win a war 10,000 miles from the battlefields.
    The left lost that war just as they have in Iraq, though they did it with many more AMERICANS KILLED. People dont forget that type of thing, even if revisionist lefties would like that very much.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    US Soldiers were kicking NVC ass and winning back offensive after offensive...right up until the media started reporting on casualties. It didnt matter that we would win a battle inflicting a 45-1 loss ratio. The NVC knew then...all they had to do is outlast the US public and political will to fight. Thats why they are conducting these beheadings. They are counting on people reeling from the shock and horror. They are counting on it.
    They are indeed counting on it, and lefties are lining up to oblige them.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why not?

    Perhaps the best answer for the time was to put Iraq under a unified Arab state rule, even under OPEC. Whatever the solution for governance, it needed to be an Arab solution.
    That would be an interesting discussion but it does not relate to Iraq under the Obama administration.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Oh, for ****'s sake.

    The ONLY way we could have kept troops in Iraq would be to give up legal immunities to prosecution of American soldiers under Iraqi law, while we were fighting a war for them. I know you're not discussing said immunity issues, because you're willfully ignoring them, because it was a non-starter -- Iraq would never let us stay without them, we would never stay with them -- that demolishes your idiotic argument.
    Kobie, I have repeatedly linked to citations where Al Maliki and others said they not only wanted us to stay, but would grant the protections desired-the PROBLEM, was getting approval in the Iraqi parliament. But that said-there were ways around that that Obama COULD HAVE TAKEN BUT DID NOT, despite being advised of the consequences of a withdrawal. And then Obama had the gall to say "mission accomplished" anyway-for votes.

    2013 iraq revealed this folly, and by early 2014 ISIS had major Iraqi cities. This is entirely Obama's 2nd term baby.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I do see your point, but given the specific set of circumstances we're discussing now, it would have been a terrible idea.
    Why do your good ideas only involve supplication and surrender?

  8. #328
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You haven't demolished anything, except in your overactive imagination. I can see your weak-sister messiah's current troubles are making you and his other acolytes more and more desperate to cook up far-fetched excuses for him. In fact the excuses coming from you and other members of his rear guard sound much like his own--and are just about as believable.

    The notion the U.S. had no choice but to hang its head meekly and do whatever Maliki's government told it to is laughable. That pisspot government was in no position to tell the U.S. anything--it never even would have existed if this country had not invaded and driven Hussein's regime from power. It was Mr. Obama who was determined to withdraw all U.S. forces, because he thought it would gain him a political advantage. He found it convenient to hide his own wish to throw in the towel behind the claim that Bush and Maliki had left him no choice. That was just one more of his lies.

    Your attempt to cover President Limpwrist's fanny isn't fooling anyone. Are you so ignorant of postwar history that you really imagine U.S. Presidents haven't sometimes had to ignore loud resistance from countries where U.S. troops were stationed, and insist on keeping them there, when they were sure it was in our national interest? Next you'll be claiming that the tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Korea were only able to stay there all these years because from 1953 on, South Koreans and their leaders unfailingly loved the U.S. and wanted it there.

    I suppose that if any South Korean leader had ever so much as raised his voice or wagged a finger, President Eisenhower would never have told them very clearly how things were going to be. No doubt Ike would have burst into tears, fallen all over himself apologizing for being so intrusive and insensitive, and explained to Americans that he had no choice but to pull all our troops out right away. And then, if a new Korean War had broken out as a result, I suppose Eisenhower would have shrugged helplessly and told the nation, "It's not my fault. Those mean South Koreans made me do it--they said we had to go, or they would punish our soldiers in their courts when they got into trouble in a bar or something! What else could I do but comply?"
    Your hypothetical describes reality through the lefts eyes. No idea of reality.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    So, if I'm reading you right, the United States should have just told Iraq to go screw itself, even though a vast majority of people both here and there didn't want us there, and because Obama didn't do that (never mind that he would have been skewered both domestically and internationally if he had), everything that's happened since in that region is all his fault. Wow, you drive a hard bargain.

    The Bush Administration negotiated a leave date. The Obama administration adhered to those terms, and didn't budge off a complete non-starter that you know damn well would have made you apoplectic, so anything that's happened since is his fault. Not Maliki's in any way ... just his. Amazing.

    Shove your "messiah" talk directly up your own ass. Leaving American troops fighting a war on behalf of a puppet government subject to the edicts of said government is out of the question and you damn well know it.
    Kobie, in your first "question" you reveal your willingness to fight wars for politics over all else. Shame on you.
    Then you seek an out by blaming Bush. Shame on you.
    Finally you present a strawman and ignore the facts of the issue. Shame on you.

    Nothing in Utica can correct your flawed logic.

  10. #330
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    How has our President been weak in terms of handling ISIS, and what does it mean to get serious?
    His bombing campaign has been ineffective in stopping the group.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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