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Thread: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Quit poking holes in his arguments. He thinks the Iraqis wanted us back even though they wanted to deny the US extraterritoriality and if weren't for Obama, they would have given it to us. That meddling Obama! Following Bush's withdrawal plan and then refusing to make our troops subject to Iraqi laws!
    Al Maliki, Iraqs ambassador, and our military advisers all warned Obama of what would happen-he ignored them and the worse case scenario came true. Genocide, mass murder, rape, slavery, child abuse of the worst kind, and an ever-enlarging terrorist home base.

    No excuses will suffice. Obama did this-and Obama will own it.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Al Maliki, Iraqs ambassador, and our military advisers all warned Obama of what would happen-he ignored them and the worse case scenario came true.
    Still not following the conversation are you? What they wanted was to deny the US soldiers extraterritoriality. Your own source confirmed that there would be no agreement from the Iraqi government AT ANY LEVEL if the US had extraterritoriality. Their fears of what would happen are irrelevant, as long as they would not afford extraterritoriality, no US troop should touch Iraqi soil. That was the right decision. That 3 years after they reaped what they sowed is their problem.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That's why they do it. That's the same kind of thing that cost us Vietnam.
    You lost me on that one Vance.

    During the early years in the RVN, the PLF (VC) were waging a terrorist war against the civilian population. Mostly targeting civilians and local government officials. I think it was in 1961 was the first time when the VC would actually engage ARVAN in combat.

    North Vietnam and the NVA troops didn't enter the RVN until 1965. Then the war was about taking ground and holding it. Until the VC and NVA got their butts whooped big time during Tet of 68. That's when Gen. Giap acknowledged that the American soldier couldn't be defeated on the battlefield.

    After Walter Cronkite lied to the American people, Uncle Hoe and Gen, Giap came up with a new strategy, attrition. It was no longer taking ground and trying to hold it. It was kill as many Americans as possible then haul ass to their sanctuary across the border into Cambodia and Laos. North Vietnam knew eventually the American people would get tired of all of the American casualties and tired of the war. Basic how to win a war 10,000 miles from the battlefields.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    You lost me on that one Vance.

    During the early years in the RVN, the PLF (VC) were waging a terrorist war against the civilian population. Mostly targeting civilians and local government officials. I think it was in 1961 was the first time when the VC would actually engage ARVAN in combat.

    North Vietnam and the NVA troops didn't enter the RVN until 1965. Then the war was about taking ground and holding it. Until the VC and NVA got their butts whooped big time during Tet of 68. That's when Gen. Giap acknowledged that the American soldier couldn't be defeated on the battlefield.

    After Walter Cronkite lied to the American people, Uncle Hoe and Gen, Giap came up with a new strategy, attrition. It was no longer taking ground and trying to hold it. It was kill as many Americans as possible then haul ass to their sanctuary across the border into Cambodia and Laos. North Vietnam knew eventually the American people would get tired of all of the American casualties and tired of the war. Basic how to win a war 10,000 miles from the battlefields.
    US Soldiers were kicking NVC ass and winning back offensive after offensive...right up until the media started reporting on casualties. It didnt matter that we would win a battle inflicting a 45-1 loss ratio. The NVC knew then...all they had to do is outlast the US public and political will to fight. Thats why they are conducting these beheadings. They are counting on people reeling from the shock and horror. They are counting on it.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    What system should have been implemented? I dont see us installing another dictator, I have heard the case for a monarch, but even that I would never see the US doing.
    Why not?

    Perhaps the best answer for the time was to put Iraq under a unified Arab state rule, even under OPEC. Whatever the solution for governance, it needed to be an Arab solution.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I guess you've forgotten that you are not required to answer every posting you disagree with. In fact, you don't even have to read the thread. Now I've reminded you of this, do try and remember.
    The only thing you have reminded me of is how some posters have no argument. It's really boring and lame and shows nothing but a lack of knowledge and intestinal fortitude.

    I expected nothing less.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Kobie, I was not, nor am I now discussing legal immunities. Read that again.
    Obama had ways to keep our troops in Iraq, this is well known and backed up by higher ups who have said as much. Obama chose not to, and now terrorism flourishes-this must have been what was meant by hope and change.
    Oh, for ****'s sake.

    The ONLY way we could have kept troops in Iraq would be to give up legal immunities to prosecution of American soldiers under Iraqi law, while we were fighting a war for them. I know you're not discussing said immunity issues, because you're willfully ignoring them, because it was a non-starter -- Iraq would never let us stay without them, we would never stay with them -- that demolishes your idiotic argument.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Yes. We could have assassinated him or allowed it to happen through our own non-intervention. Maliki was not critical to success in Iraq. Nobody would have cared. The internal fight was over oil revenue sharing and nothing else at that point.
    I do see your point, but given the specific set of circumstances we're discussing now, it would have been a terrible idea.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    US Soldiers were kicking NVC ass and winning back offensive after offensive...right up until the media started reporting on casualties. It didnt matter that we would win a battle inflicting a 45-1 loss ratio. The NVC knew then...all they had to do is outlast the US public and political will to fight. Thats why they are conducting these beheadings. They are counting on people reeling from the shock and horror. They are counting on it.
    I concur.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Oh, for ****'s sake.

    The ONLY way we could have kept troops in Iraq would be to give up legal immunities to prosecution of American soldiers under Iraqi law, while we were fighting a war for them. I know you're not discussing said immunity issues, because you're willfully ignoring them, because it was a non-starter -- Iraq would never let us stay without them, we would never stay with them -- that demolishes your idiotic argument.
    You haven't demolished anything, except in your overactive imagination. I can see your weak-sister messiah's current troubles are making you and his other acolytes more and more desperate to cook up far-fetched excuses for him. In fact the excuses coming from you and other members of his rear guard sound much like his own--and are just about as believable.

    The notion the U.S. had no choice but to hang its head meekly and do whatever Maliki's government told it to is laughable. That pisspot government was in no position to tell the U.S. anything--it never even would have existed if this country had not invaded and driven Hussein's regime from power. It was Mr. Obama who was determined to withdraw all U.S. forces, because he thought it would gain him a political advantage. He found it convenient to hide his own wish to throw in the towel behind the claim that Bush and Maliki had left him no choice. That was just one more of his lies.

    Your attempt to cover President Limpwrist's fanny isn't fooling anyone. Are you so ignorant of postwar history that you really imagine U.S. Presidents haven't sometimes had to ignore loud resistance from countries where U.S. troops were stationed, and insist on keeping them there, when they were sure it was in our national interest? Next you'll be claiming that the tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Korea were only able to stay there all these years because from 1953 on, South Koreans and their leaders unfailingly loved the U.S. and wanted it there.

    I suppose that if any South Korean leader had ever so much as raised his voice or wagged a finger, President Eisenhower would never have told them very clearly how things were going to be. No doubt Ike would have burst into tears, fallen all over himself apologizing for being so intrusive and insensitive, and explained to Americans that he had no choice but to pull all our troops out right away. And then, if a new Korean War had broken out as a result, I suppose Eisenhower would have shrugged helplessly and told the nation, "It's not my fault. Those mean South Koreans made me do it--they said we had to go, or they would punish our soldiers in their courts when they got into trouble in a bar or something! What else could I do but comply?"

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