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Thread: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

  1. #261
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Malaki ASKED for us to stay, by executive agreement. Obama said no, and left Iraq to the wolves.
    Fareed Zakaria: Who lost Iraq? The Iraqis did, with an assist from George W. Bush - The Washington Post

    If the Bush administration deserves a fair share of blame for “losing Iraq,” what about the Obama administration and its decision to withdraw American forces from the country by the end of 2011? I would have preferred to see a small American force in Iraq to try to prevent the country’s collapse. But let’s remember why this force is not there. Maliki refused to provide the guarantees that every other country in the world that hosts U.S. forces offers. Some commentators have blamed the Obama administration for negotiating badly or halfheartedly and perhaps this is true. But here’s what a senior Iraqi politician told me in the days when the U.S. withdrawal was being discussed: “It will not happen. Maliki cannot allow American troops to stay on. Iran has made very clear to Maliki that its No. 1 demand is that there be no American troops remaining in Iraq. And Maliki owes them.” He reminded me that Maliki spent 24 years in exile, most of them in Tehran and Damascus, and his party was funded by Iran for most of its existence. And in fact, Maliki’s government has followed policies that have been pro-Iranian and pro-Syrian.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah, so you're saying you didn't lie when you said the agreement the agreement was written that way to leave BHO a free hand and then admitted there was never any leniency in the actual agreement? Well, hm. Alright. Your doublespeak isn't fooling me. Which is t, was the agreement written in such a way as to allow Obama a freehand or not? If it was, show us where. If it wasn't, then retract. Easy, peasy.
    BHO had a free hand from the moment he became POTUS on 20 January 2009. The GWB agreement was written with a 2011 deadline in order to allow BHO well over two years to negotiate his own agreement. QED
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    LMAO - you didn't even read your source, did you?

    Obama



    In short, the agreement didn't go through because the Iraqis wanted to deny the US extraterritoriality. Do you realize that makes the claim that they 'wanted to work with us' complete bull****? They wanted to have the power to prosecute American personnel and wouldn't budge. You article even admits that's the one reason we refused to stay after the deadline. So thanks for demonstrating just how ridiculously dishonest you've been about this entire thing.
    I never said there wasn't opposition in the Iraqi govt, I said Maliki asked for troops to stay, and in fact wanted Obama to simply agree via executive agreement to bypass the opposition in Iraq.

    Point being-if Obama wanted to HE COULD HAVE LEFT FORCES THERE. But he chose to lose for votes, and now many thousands are dying horrible deaths.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    So was Star Wars.

    If that's the only similarity you can come up with, then you're simply proving my point. I suppose we should reinstitute conscription, mobilize 12 million military personnel and resort to nuclear weapons until ISIS' government agrees to an unconditional surrender, since it's just like World War II.
    Star Wars is fiction. ISIS is really beheading Christian children.
    And you apparently can't understand the difference between total war, and low intensity asymmetric conflicts like Obama's war in Iraq.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Star Wars is fiction. ISIS is really beheading Christian children.
    And you apparently can't understand the difference between total war, and low intensity asymmetric conflicts like Obama's war in Iraq.
    No, apparently matchlight can't, since he's the one who made the ridiculous point.

    For starters, I am well aware that ISIS is doing some really awful things and really deserves to get its ass kicked, so spare me the appeal to emotion.

    Secondly, we haven't HAD a total war since World War II. I figured someone so learned and esteemed as you would know that.

    Thirdly, in World War II we were facing two aggressive nation-states (plus a few hangers-on) in a conventional (if extremely large-scale) armed conflict with a large coalition of allies. In the Middle East, we are currently facing a paramilitary extremist organization. To compare them is idiocy of the highest order. I thought you guys didn't like "one-size-fits-all" solutions?

    But enough of this. I'm certainly not going to indulge your hackery and get into another pissing match with you, of all people. Dismissed.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I never said there wasn't opposition in the Iraqi govt, I said Maliki asked for troops to stay, and in fact wanted Obama to simply agree via executive agreement to bypass the opposition in Iraq.

    Point being-if Obama wanted to HE COULD HAVE LEFT FORCES THERE. But he chose to lose for votes, and now many thousands are dying horrible deaths.
    Ummm... no you claimed that they wanted to work with us and wanted us to stay. For the Iraqis, "working with us" meant giving up extraterritoriality. That's not only insane it's downright unacceptable by any first world military fighting a war on behalf of another country. Maliki didn't want us to stay and the fact that giving up extraterritoriality was a demand made by him proves that. Are you kidding?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I never said there wasn't opposition in the Iraqi govt, I said Maliki asked for troops to stay, and in fact wanted Obama to simply agree via executive agreement to bypass the opposition in Iraq.

    Point being-if Obama wanted to HE COULD HAVE LEFT FORCES THERE. But he chose to lose for votes, and now many thousands are dying horrible deaths.
    We really needed to leave Iraq. Many thousands died horrible deaths when we were there, and many of them were Americans and our allies. 13 million displaced people in the region; a group that wants to create a religious oligarchy that would be the oppression of people, especially women, would be the worst thing we would see in humanity in our life times if not stopped. This radicalism is spilling blood on the streets of our European allies to whom we owe a great deal of gratitude. Whether or not we should be doing something to render assistance is not debatable in a civilized society. What we should be doing is. Unfortunately your obsession with trying to always point fingers at Obama, the democrats, and the left at every opportunity denies you the opportunity to make arguments on their merits.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm... no you claimed that they wanted to work with us and wanted us to stay. For the Iraqis, "working with us" meant giving up extraterritoriality. That's not only insane it's downright unacceptable by any first world military fighting a war on behalf of another country. Maliki didn't want us to stay and the fact that giving up extraterritoriality was a demand made by him proves that. Are you kidding?
    It does not matter how many times you attempt to pound this into his head. He will deny it, because it destroys his entire argument.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    It does not matter how many times you attempt to pound this into his head. He will deny it, because it destroys his entire argument.
    It's downright stupid to try and claim that the Iraqis wanted us to stay when the condition they would not budge on was reserving the right to prosecute American soldiers. Does he think the US should have complied with that particular demand as long as our demands were met? ****ing jingoists don't even understand the very real repercussions of these decisions. Should Obama have worked with them on a position they wouldn't budge on? **** them. He made the right decision by not budging to that demand.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    No, apparently matchlight can't, since he's the one who made the ridiculous point.

    For starters, I am well aware that ISIS is doing some really awful things and really deserves to get its ass kicked, so spare me the appeal to emotion.

    Secondly, we haven't HAD a total war since World War II. I figured someone so learned and esteemed as you would know that.

    Thirdly, in World War II we were facing two aggressive nation-states (plus a few hangers-on) in a conventional (if extremely large-scale) armed conflict with a large coalition of allies. In the Middle East, we are currently facing a paramilitary extremist organization. To compare them is idiocy of the highest order. I thought you guys didn't like "one-size-fits-all" solutions?

    But enough of this. I'm certainly not going to indulge your hackery and get into another pissing match with you, of all people. Dismissed.
    Kobie, the comparison being made is that they are absolutely evil (unless you are a fan) like the Nazi's or Stalin. Its NOT that they are the same type of threat, or should be fought the same way.

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