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Thread: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

  1. #251
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There was never "leniency" anywhere
    Good. At least you've made progress and admitted you lied here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    For the third time, the agreement was written that way to leave BHO a free hand.
    Obama fulfilled the previous administration's agreement and now you're attacking him for doing so. What some unnamed guy and you expected is entirely irrelevant to political agreements.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You could kill every ISIS member and it wouldn't solve a damned thing. It would actually cause more extremism, and promote the belief to Islamic nations that America will take care of their problems if they ever get out of hand. You're an enabler.
    Exactly! That's why the allies' strategy in World War II was so stupid. It should have been obvious they could kill every last Nazi and Japanese militarist, and it wouldn't solve a damned thing. Making war on Germany and Japan just caused more extremism. Roosevelt and Churchill were enablers.

    Violence never solves anything. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And arms are for hugging.

  3. #253
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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Exactly! That's why the allies' strategy in World War II was so stupid. It should have been obvious they could kill every last Nazi and Japanese militarist, and it wouldn't solve a damned thing. Making war on Germany and Japan just caused more extremism. Roosevelt and Churchill were enablers.

    Violence never solves anything. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And arms are for hugging.
    The fact that you see the conflict with ISIS as in any way analogous with World War II simply proves your ignorance.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah, so Iraq asked for US forces to stay past the 2011 deadline. Fine. Show us how? Remember, for this statement to be true, Iraq's demands need to have come before the deadline. So I'll wait for you to provide evidence.



    Your refusal to even provide a modicum of proof is really funny. However, it doesn't make your false claims true.
    In Focus Quarterly reported in 2012:

    Given that the U.S. would never agree to leave its people to the mercy of an Iraqi court, Iraqi demands for this condition seemed to be a calculated plan of Shia politicians who needed America out of the way in order to finally advance Iranian hegemony in Iraq. But recent reporting by The New York Times’ Michael Gordon paints a more complicated picture of U.S. incompetence and disengagement. Most notably, the Obama administration’s insistence that any Status of Forces Agreement be ratified by Iraq’s parliament set the stage for the inevitable failure of any agreement.

    Simply put, while a number of Iraqi political leaders may have privately wished for continued American involvement to serve as a buffer and broker between both domestic rivals and neighboring regimes, far fewer were willing to support this position in a public, contentious debate. No one wants to be regarded as an American stooge in the prideful arena of Iraqi politics. Backing parliamentarians into a corner by demanding public ratification doomed a new SOFA to failure.

    Pathetic. There is really no other way to say it.

    Foreign Policy magazine had an interview with Jim Jeffrey, the former US Ambassador to Iraq, in 2012. Here’s what came to light (via The Long War Journal):

    Jeffrey didn’t necessarily support the larger troop footprint envisioned by military leaders at the time, which reportedly ranged from 8,000 to 16,000 to 24,000 troops, depending on the military official. But he said he firmly believed that troops in Iraq past 2011 were needed and wanted by the Iraqi government.

    Jeffrey said that he and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki personally discussed the idea of extending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq via an executive agreement, which would not have to go through the Iraqi parliament.

    Maliki said at one point, ‘Why don’t we just do this as an executive agreement?’
    Obama

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good. At least you've made progress and admitted you lied here:



    Obama fulfilled the previous administration's agreement and now you're attacking him for doing so. What some unnamed guy and you expected is entirely irrelevant to political agreements.
    I fear you are living in a parallel universe. There has been no lying, but your obtuse literalism might be construed as dishonest by someone less generous than me. The GWB agreement was intended to create the conditions for his successor, BHO, to negotiate his own agreement. Being POTUS, BHO did indeed have a free hand to do just that. Among those on the U.S. side who dealt with Iraq (and who drafted the agreement, btw) there was a near universal expectation that the point of the exercise was to enable a continuing US troop presence in Iraq.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    It was not insurmountable; Malaki just didn't want to sign it because he was a sectarian thug controlled by Iran. ISIS came about in part due to Malaki's actions, and Malaki was no longer in a position to play games when his army sh*t its collective pants.
    Malaki ASKED for us to stay, by executive agreement. Obama said no, and left Iraq to the wolves.

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I fear you are living in a parallel universe. There has been no lying, but your obtuse literalism might be construed as dishonest by someone less generous than me. The GWB agreement was intended to create the conditions for his successor, BHO, to negotiate his own agreement. Being POTUS, BHO did indeed have a free hand to do just that. Among those on the U.S. side who dealt with Iraq (and who drafted the agreement, btw) there was a near universal expectation that the point of the exercise was to enable a continuing US troop presence in Iraq.
    Ah, so you're saying you didn't lie when you said the agreement the agreement was written that way to leave BHO a free hand and then admitted there was never any leniency in the actual agreement? Well, hm. Alright. Your doublespeak isn't fooling me. Which is t, was the agreement written in such a way as to allow Obama a freehand or not? If it was, show us where. If it wasn't, then retract. Easy, peasy.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The fact that you see the conflict with ISIS as in any way analogous with World War II simply proves your ignorance.
    Its good fighting evil Kobie. Is this hard to see?

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    LMAO - you didn't even read your source, did you?

    Obama

    But ultimately, the Iraqis did insist that a new SOFA had to go through their parliament and they would not budge on the immunities issue, which made an extension of U.S. forces there impossible, Jeffrey said. He said the insistence on immunity was uniform inside the Obama administration.

    "I know of no senior official who challenged that," he said.
    In short, the agreement didn't go through because the Iraqis wanted to deny the US extraterritoriality. Do you realize that makes the claim that they 'wanted to work with us' complete bull****? They wanted to have the power to prosecute American personnel and wouldn't budge. You article even admits that's the one reason we refused to stay after the deadline. So thanks for demonstrating just how ridiculously dishonest you've been about this entire thing. Not only did they not want to work with us, they refused to grant the one condition afforded to armies fighting on behalf of another state. **** that nonsense.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-17-14 at 12:14 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its good fighting evil Kobie. Is this hard to see?
    So was Star Wars.

    If that's the only similarity you can come up with, then you're simply proving my point. I suppose we should reinstitute conscription, mobilize 12 million military personnel and resort to nuclear weapons until ISIS' government agrees to an unconditional surrender, since it's just like World War II.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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