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Vladimir Putin stations Russian warships off Australia's coast ahead of G20

Fearandloathing said:
Let's see....a few days ago the Chinese unveiled a new fighter to compete with the F-35...

Now Putin shows off his Navy to the assembled, including NATO countries.

You think they are saying something about the "leader of the free world"? Would either have done either under Reagan, Clinton or Bush?

BTW, what the Chinese did was a deliberate insult, it was the diplomatic equivalent of slapping your wife in public.
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That's what flexibility gets you with the Rooskies.
 
Simpleχity;1063982876 said:
This is sheer hyperbole. The total Russian male population is 66 million.
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My mistake, it's suppose to be 10 million. How the **** did that happen ?

Lets try it again.

The big difference between the USA today and Russia, Russia has 10 million men of military age who are willing to pick up arms and fight for mother Russia.

Thanks SimpleXity for catching that. I owe you one.
 
Simpleχity;1063981387 said:
Thus pud can't even attend a summit without threatening-theatrics.
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Good! let him. If the cost of oil keeps tanking he won’t be able to pay crew.:2wave:
 
AuburnGrad said:
The Black Sea is a Russian lake for all intents and purposes. Been there. Have you?
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Not in Georgia, only in the area. But what does that have to do with it? You think that Putin's land grab was okay there? It is true that it is at the furthest fringes of Europe and far away. But land grab is not good precedence as Ukraine is learning. The small Baltic countries are worried about that point.
 
AuburnGrad said:
The Black Sea is a Russian lake for all intents and purposes. Been there. Have you?
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I have and I've lived in Crimea and Odessa. Russian lake? Five countries - Bulgaria, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Turkey, Ukraine - have a littoral Black Sea coastline. The 1936 Montreux Convention provides for a free passage of civilian ships between the international waters of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Turkey has a complete control over the Turkish Straits connecting the two seas. The 1982 amendments to the Montreux Convention allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in both wartime and peacetime.
 
Simpleχity;1063984487 said:
I have and I've lived in Crimea and Odessa. Russian lake? Five countries - Bulgaria, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Turkey, Ukraine - have a littoral Black Sea coastline. The 1936 Montreux Convention provides for a free passage of civilian ships between the international waters of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Turkey has a complete control over the Turkish Straits connecting the two seas. The 1982 amendments to the Montreux Convention allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in both wartime and peacetime.
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...and that disputes the fact that Russia treats the Black Sea as their own. My guided missile cruiser was shadowed and harassed every minute that we dared to violate their "lake".
 
AuburnGrad said:
...and that disputes the fact that Russia treats the Black Sea as their own. My guided missile cruiser was shadowed and harassed every minute that we dared to violate their "lake".
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The Black Sea does not belong to Russia. Period.
 
AuburnGrad said:
...and that disputes the fact that Russia treats the Black Sea as their own. My guided missile cruiser was shadowed and harassed every minute that we dared to violate their "lake".
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You have a guided missile cruiser? You are the coolest dude on DP.

/thread
 
APACHERAT said:
But the Ruskies have submarines that our Navy can't find. And our carriers are scared of the Ruskies Slava class cruisers.
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Basically a myth. The USN has historically never had much trouble tracking Russian submarines.

And in the event of a war the Slava class cruisers would be lucky to last long enough to get their 16 missiles off.

The Slava's are an interesting design, but they are basically fallbacks in case the Kirovs failed to work properly.
 
Dayton3 said:
Basically a myth. The USN has historically never had much trouble tracking Russian submarines.

And in the event of a war the Slava class cruisers would be lucky to last long enough to get their 16 missiles off.

The Slava's are an interesting design, but they are basically fallbacks in case the Kirovs failed to work properly.
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>" The Defense Ministry has ordered a total of six Varshavyanka-class subs, dubbed "black holes in the ocean" by the US Navy because they are nearly undetectable when submerged..."<

Russia


>"The Project 636 Kilo-class submarine has been dubbed the “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its level of quietness. The Project 636MV-class sub has improved stealth features through the removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles. The tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves that reduce and distort the return signal. The anechoic tiles also shield sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection by passive sonar.

The improved Kilo is 73.8 meters (242 ft.) in length, 9.9 meters (32.4 ft.) in width with a draft of 6.2 meters (20.34 ft.). It has a surface displacement of 2,350 tons and can dive up to quarter of a mile. The improved Kilo is powered by diesel-electric engines. It has a range of 9,650 km (5,996 miles) and can travel 700 km (434 miles) underwater at 2.7 knots (5 km/hour) at quiet speed. The Kilo can reach a top speed of 20 knots (37 km/hour). Vietnam apparently has not opted for the Air Independent Propulsion system that would permit extended time on patrol. The Improved Kilo has a crew of 57.

The Project 636MV submarine has six 533-mm forward torpedo tubes. It can carry 18 torpedoes (six loaded in the tubes and 12 in racks) or 24 mines (two in each tube and 12 in racks). Two of the torpedo tubes are designed to fire remote-controlled torpedoes with very high accuracy. The improved Kilo can also fire anti-ship cruise missiles from its torpedo tubes. The Kilo also carries MANPADS Strela-3 antiaircraft missiles..."<

Russian Subs in Vietnam - USNI News
 
APACHERAT said:
>" The Defense Ministry has ordered a total of six Varshavyanka-class subs, dubbed "black holes in the ocean" by the US Navy because they are nearly undetectable when submerged..."<

Russia


>"The Project 636 Kilo-class submarine has been dubbed the “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its level of quietness. The Project 636MV-class sub has improved stealth features through the removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles. The tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves that reduce and distort the return signal. The anechoic tiles also shield sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection by passive sonar.

The improved Kilo is 73.8 meters (242 ft.) in length, 9.9 meters (32.4 ft.) in width with a draft of 6.2 meters (20.34 ft.). It has a surface displacement of 2,350 tons and can dive up to quarter of a mile. The improved Kilo is powered by diesel-electric engines. It has a range of 9,650 km (5,996 miles) and can travel 700 km (434 miles) underwater at 2.7 knots (5 km/hour) at quiet speed. The Kilo can reach a top speed of 20 knots (37 km/hour). Vietnam apparently has not opted for the Air Independent Propulsion system that would permit extended time on patrol. The Improved Kilo has a crew of 57.

The Project 636MV submarine has six 533-mm forward torpedo tubes. It can carry 18 torpedoes (six loaded in the tubes and 12 in racks) or 24 mines (two in each tube and 12 in racks). Two of the torpedo tubes are designed to fire remote-controlled torpedoes with very high accuracy. The improved Kilo can also fire anti-ship cruise missiles from its torpedo tubes. The Kilo also carries MANPADS Strela-3 antiaircraft missiles..."<

Russian Subs in Vietnam - USNI News
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Kilo's are 20 year old technology.

And finding an SSK has always been more annoyance than anything. They can operate best in shallow, coastal waters. Not in blue waters where carriers operate.
 
spud_meister said:
Are you saying if something happens to the president whilst in Africa he should go unprotected to a local hospital?
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Only a Democratic president.

Or was there an audible Apachie squeak when Laura Bush was setting the record as the most-travelled First Lady of all time:

Watchdog group's double standard with Obama and Bush kids' vacations | Washington Times Communities

And when the Buch twins took a 2006 trip to Argentina:

U.S. Embassy Asks Bush Twins to Leave Country - ABC News

There was not even a pretense of state business in the twins' Argentina trip.
 
DDD said:
You think Putin is compensating for something?
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Yes, Russia being a shell of its' former Soviet self (even though the USSR was more than just Russia) and a relative crap-hole. He puts on a show because the reality of Russia's situation isn't too pretty.
 
Dayton3 said:
Kilo's are 20 year old technology.

And finding an SSK has always been more annoyance than anything. They can operate best in shallow, coastal waters. Not in blue waters where carriers operate.
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During the summer of 2013 during the Putin/Obama stare down over Syria when Obama blinked, one Slava class cruiser kept a U.S. Navy carrier bottled up in the Red Sea. No way was that carrier going to transit the Suez Canal and enter the Mediterranean Sea with a Slava class cruiser that was designed and built for only one purpose, to sink U.S. super carriers.

It's not the ship that the U.S. Navy is scared of, it's the 16 SS-N-12 Sandox supersonic anti ship missiles traveling at Mach 2.5 skimming just above the water with a 2,000 lb. semi armor piercing warhead.

Remember that the Slava's don't operate alone, they have AA, ASW escorts and attack subs as escorts.


Paired P-500/SS-N-19 Bazalt/Sandbox Launchers

>" While most missiles launchers that have been converted to fire standard missiles, these launchers retained the original missile that they were designed for. The missile launchers fire P-500 Bazalt/SS-N-12 Sandbox missiles. The missile is similar to the original model but the guidance systems have been improved on the missiles. The missiles are the predecessor to the Shipwreck missile carried on the Kirov class The missiles can be fired be fired at either ground or surface targets but cannot be targeted on air targets. The ships has 16 Sandbox missiles in paired launch systems on the sides of the ship. The missiles are considered smart missiles (+5 to strike, +4 to dodge, and 2 attacks per melee until they strike their target or run out of fuel) and can be launched at multiple targets simultaneously. The missiles travel at a speed of Mach 2.2 (1657 mph/ 1440 knots/ 2667 kph). This calculates to a speed of 7.5 miles (6.5 nautical miles / 12 km) per melee. Missiles can withstand 40 MDC before being destroyed.
Maximum Effective Range: 288 miles (250 nautical miles / 463 km)
Mega-Damage: 2D4x100 per missile (Blast radius of 80 feet / 24.4 meters)
Rate of Fire: One at a time or in volley of 2, 3, or 4 (including all launchers) in any combinations and at multiple target at the same time.
Payload: 16 Shipwreck Missiles (2 per paired set of launchers)..."<
""

SS-N-12 Sandbox
 
16 cruise missiles could never swamp the air defenses of a carrier battle group.

A single Burke class escort alone could launch FOUR Standard II missiles to intercept for each anti ship missile the Slava launched.

A massed missile attack with Backfire bombers would probably be the only way you could swamp the defenses of a CBG.
 
APACHERAT said:
>" The Defense Ministry has ordered a total of six Varshavyanka-class subs, dubbed "black holes in the ocean" by the US Navy because they are nearly undetectable when submerged..."<

Russia


>"The Project 636 Kilo-class submarine has been dubbed the “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its level of quietness. The Project 636MV-class sub has improved stealth features through the removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles. The tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves that reduce and distort the return signal. The anechoic tiles also shield sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection by passive sonar.

The improved Kilo is 73.8 meters (242 ft.) in length, 9.9 meters (32.4 ft.) in width with a draft of 6.2 meters (20.34 ft.). It has a surface displacement of 2,350 tons and can dive up to quarter of a mile. The improved Kilo is powered by diesel-electric engines. It has a range of 9,650 km (5,996 miles) and can travel 700 km (434 miles) underwater at 2.7 knots (5 km/hour) at quiet speed. The Kilo can reach a top speed of 20 knots (37 km/hour). Vietnam apparently has not opted for the Air Independent Propulsion system that would permit extended time on patrol. The Improved Kilo has a crew of 57.

The Project 636MV submarine has six 533-mm forward torpedo tubes. It can carry 18 torpedoes (six loaded in the tubes and 12 in racks) or 24 mines (two in each tube and 12 in racks). Two of the torpedo tubes are designed to fire remote-controlled torpedoes with very high accuracy. The improved Kilo can also fire anti-ship cruise missiles from its torpedo tubes. The Kilo also carries MANPADS Strela-3 antiaircraft missiles..."<

Russian Subs in Vietnam - USNI News
Click to expand...

Diesel subs are useless against a blue water fleet simply because they cannot catch it.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
You have a guided missile cruiser? You are the coolest dude on DP.

/thread
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While I was the Officer of the Deck the ship, and everything on board was my responsibility, yes, it was in effect mine.
 
AuburnGrad said:
Diesel subs are useless against a blue water fleet simply because they cannot catch it.
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But they are sure quiet little things.

There are many in the naval community who believe that we should have a mixture of nuclear powered and diesel electric subs. Diesel electric subs like the Russians Kilo class are blue water subs. All of the subs during WW ll on all sides were diesel electric and operated in a blue water evironment.

What your confused with is the range that was stated, the 437 mile range is submerged running on the batteries. It can run at a faster speed but it would reduce it's range without recharging the batteries. Snorkeling, the Kilo class subs have over a 7,000 mile range submerged.
 
Dayton3 said:
16 cruise missiles could never swamp the air defenses of a carrier battle group.

A single Burke class escort alone could launch FOUR Standard II missiles to intercept for each anti ship missile the Slava launched.

A massed missile attack with Backfire bombers would probably be the only way you could swamp the defenses of a CBG.
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Standard ll missiles intercepting sea skimming cruise missiles traveling at Mach 2.5 ? :thinking
 
APACHERAT said:
But they are sure quiet little things.

There are many in the naval community who believe that we should have a mixture of nuclear powered and diesel electric subs. Diesel electric subs like the Russians Kilo class are blue water subs. All of the subs during WW ll on all sides were diesel electric and operated in a blue water evironment.

What your confused with is the range that was stated, the 437 mile range is submerged running on the batteries. It can run at a faster speed but it would reduce it's range without recharging the batteries. Snorkeling, the Kilo class subs have over a 7,000 mile range submerged.
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You obviously have little to no clue as to what you are talking about. You cannot snorkel while truly submerged which also severely restricts your speed. While running on diesels you can be heard for hundreds of miles and can be picked up easily on radar.

I am a former submariner, in addition to a surface warfare officer trained in ASW in the Navy.

As for WWII, submarines had to be in FRONT of the target and let the target come to them simply because they cannot make any speed while submerged and if surfaced they were sitting ducks.
 
APACHERAT said:
Standard ll missiles intercepting sea skimming cruise missiles traveling at Mach 2.5 ? :thinking
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You do realize that there are only 3 Slava class cruisers in their inventory. Right?
 
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