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Stupidity of the American Voter?

We know that the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea in congress in the 1990s. We know the first iteration of the ACA was implemented by a Republican in Massachusetts. We know that the biggest lie is that Republicans are stewards of liberty and the free market. They are diet socialist who put on a mask to fool their stupid voters.
So Obamacare was all a Republican plot, was it? Are you part of the "Friends of Jonathan Gruber Society"?
 
The arrogance and condescension of the left leaves me utterly amazed.
Even more so now that the Gruber videos have been uncovered and brought forth, where he's basically bragging to his fellow leftists just on how ingenious he is committing fraud on the electorate.

A real POS this guy is. Real POS most leftists are.

We can only hope that this sets the leftist / progressive / liberal agenda back decades.


The guy made a laughing stock out of himself and if we had an honest media it'd be a lot more fun to watch the rich little ego tripper squirm.
But, alas, we don't so we'll have to settle for laughing at Media Matters and it's fanboys here on DP.
 
Real POS most leftists are.

My best friend is a special forces officer currently serving in Afghanistan, and is a staunch leftist. I don't agree with his political stances, but find it funny when posters refer to an entire political party with some type of vulgar name or insult. I would bet my entire portfolio no one would ever call him a pos to his face. Internet warriors are so tuff!
 
A vote for Mitt Romney is a vote for socialized medicine, and we know almost every conservative voted for him. He implemented a statewide plan himself, so he clearly supports socialized medicine and obviously he wasn't going to do much, if anything with the ACA while president, if he won. Conservatives proved to the world they have no ideological backbone and became the laughing stock of partisan politics when they voted for him in droves. I just can't take anything conservatives say seriously anymore.
So a vote for Barrack Obama must have been a vote against socialized medicine. I've never heard it explained quite that way before.
 
That seems to be a fair assessment. And if the targets of Gruber's comments can understand an 1,100 page 'tortuous' document they should be able to understand those six lines.

You dream big dreams don't you.

Yes, they should, but then they are the ones backing a law that was constructed with "torturous language."

I lost my hope when Obama skated after "you can keep your plan", the lack of true outrage on that was deafening
 
My best friend is a special forces officer currently serving in Afghanistan, and is a staunch leftist. I don't agree with his political stances, but find it funny when posters refer to an entire political party with some type of vulgar name or insult. I would bet my entire portfolio no one would ever call him a pos to his face. Internet warriors are so tuff!

Fair enough. Most leftist policies are POS.

Gruber is a fraudster, and should be brought up on criminal fraud charges as well as all those who voted for this leftist POS legislation knowing it was a fraud.
 
reading comprehension is a valued skill that should be refined by everyone (they test for it in the military, law enforcement, and college). I never blamed Obamacare on Republicans, but highlighted Republican policies that supported or implemented socialized medicine, and this hasn't reduced any conservative support for the Republican Party. If you want to be taken seriously when making an idealogical stance, you can't support people who don't represent that ideology.

What law did congressional Republicans pass that socialized the entire medical system in Anerica?
 
I believe that Romney was pretty much forced into implementing RomneyCare by the heavily liberal / progressive / Democrat state legislature.

You taking voting for Romney in the presidential and against Obama as some sort of endorsement of socialized medicine surely is ideologically based distortion if there ever was.

You taking voting for Romney as an endorsement for small government, free market conservatism surely is ideologically based distortion if there ever was.
 
My best friend is a special forces officer currently serving in Afghanistan, and is a staunch leftist. I don't agree with his political stances, but find it funny when posters refer to an entire political party with some type of vulgar name or insult. I would bet my entire portfolio no one would ever call him a pos to his face. Internet warriors are so tuff!

And Libbos are always snake-eaters, or are best friends with a snake-eater. :roll:
 
You taking voting for Romney as an endorsement for small government, free market conservatism surely is ideologically based distortion if there ever was.

Where did I ever say that?
Please post the quote. I'd be interested if even such a quote exists, which I don't think does.
 
A vote for Mitt Romney is a vote for socialized medicine, and we know almost every conservative voted for him. He implemented a statewide plan himself, so he clearly supports socialized medicine and obviously he wasn't going to do much, if anything with the ACA while president, if he won. Conservatives proved to the world they have no ideological backbone and became the laughing stock of partisan politics when they voted for him in droves. I just can't take anything conservatives say seriously anymore.


Ahem...

I am wondering how you might substantiate the claim the Romneycare is "socialized medicine"?

I can state categorically, having lived among rabid socialists that not ONE of them would conceive of any law that forces people by penalty of fine to pay money to for profit, multi-national corporations.

Under "socialized medicine" as the red neck right like to portray universal medical care, the only profits go to the hard working men and women who deliver the services, and the lobbying greed heads go suck wind or move to the land of the free to be a stupid voter.
 
What law did congressional Republicans pass that socialized the entire medical system in Anerica?

Again reading comprehension. The statement you are referring to "highlighted Republican policies that supported or implemented socialized medicine," republicans in congress supported an individual mandated in 1993 in an opposite plan to Clinton's health plan. And Republican governor mitt Romney implemented socialized medicine in MA, and became the Republic nominee for president! What a joke. I could never vote for a party that nominated a diet socialist.
 
The guy made a laughing stock out of himself and if we had an honest media it'd be a lot more fun to watch the rich little ego tripper squirm.
But, alas, we don't so we'll have to settle for laughing at Media Matters and it's fanboys here on DP.
Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses', despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.
 
Again reading comprehension. The statement you are referring to "highlighted Republican policies that supported or implemented socialized medicine," republicans in congress supported an individual mandated in 1993 in an opposite plan to Clinton's health plan. And Republican governor mitt Romney implemented socialized medicine in MA, and became the Republic nominee for president! What a joke. I could never vote for a party that nominated a diet socialist.
So some supported an individual mandate? And nothing was passed?

Sounds like a conspiracy to me!
 
So some supported an individual mandate? And nothing was passed?

Sounds like a conspiracy to me!

So if politicians only attempt to pass a policy I vehemently oppose, but they don't succeed, that means I should still vote for them in the future?

That's like your wife trying to cheat on you but it didn't happen because the guy didn't show up. Obviously conservatives are the type of people who would forgive that easily and stay married to that woman.
 
You taking voting for Romney as an endorsement for small government, free market conservatism surely is ideologically based distortion if there ever was.

Romney was just the lesser of two evils. I'm sure you can work that out.
 
Romney was just the lesser of two evils. I'm sure you can work that out.

When you vote for the lesser of two evils, you're still voting for evil. When Americans wake up to that, we might see some actual change in how things are done in Washington.
 
Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and
they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses',
despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.
Oh absolutely ... and this guy is dripping with that characteristic.
 
Romney was just the lesser of two evils. I'm sure you can work that out.

The Democrat Party tag line "There is such a thing as a free lunch, and soon we are adding tacos to the menu."

The Republican Party tag line "Yes, we are liars and progressives too, but we are the lesser of two evils."

No thanks.
 
Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses', despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.

This is the point that usually gets missed in these discussions even if you take out all the numbnuts who just want to accuse, blame, or demonize the other guy instead of focusing on what actually happened and/or what should happen.

There is nothing wrong with 'socialization' of some public services so long as it is mutually agreed via social contract on a local level--at the very least a no higher than the state level. It only makes sense for the citizens to pool resources and share fire services, police protection, public schools, public libraries, city streets, sewers, water systems, hospitals, etc. Such benefit all and relieve each family from having to arrange for and provide that for each household. And it makes sense for the community to elect persons who will be entrusted to administer the shared systems and services and do planning for expansion that benefits all. This is as the founders intended and it works best the more local it is because it can be tailored for the particular local needs of a particular community.

The disconnect comes when some want the federal government to impose what they want on the states - on everybody whether they agree to it or not. And that is when oppressive laws and totalitarian concepts start coming into play. A national speed limit, for instance, is absurd given the wide varieties in terrain and conditions found across the nation. Ditto a national minimum wage, at least above the level intended to prevent slave labor. Each area is different and the cost of living widely varies rendering federal establishment of a 'living wage' really and counter productive for many.

With the consent of the people, a statewide healthcare law might work in Massachusetts with a relatively small, homogenous population and relatively minor welfare or illegal immigration issues, but the same law would be very wrong for other states with very different issues and situations to deal with. That is why the Founders intended that the states organize their own societies and that would never be the prerogative of the federal government.

The 'stupidity of the American voter' comes in when the people fail to see how the federal government is taking more and more power and is constantly growing government to enforce that power. It consumes more and more of the nation's resources just to maintain that ever more enormous and bloated bureaucracy, and it is more and more taking away the people's rights, options, choices, and opportunities to create the sorts of societies they want to have.

Our elected leaders consistently attempt to fool us that what they do is for our good, our benefit, our blessings when in fact what they are doing is increasing their own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

Obamacare is an example of this in the most serious way.
 
Mitt Romney did something similar years before in MA, and conservatives overwhelmingly voted for him in 2012. This just proved that conservative ideology is based around combating Obama, and that they are pretty apathetic when it comes to the destruction of socialism.

Obviously you don't understand a state program vs a one size fits all Federal Program. Suggest you learn what Romney actually did vs what Obama did. Healthcare is a state issue not a Federal one.
 
Obviously you don't understand a state program vs a one size fits all Federal Program. Suggest you learn what Romney actually did vs what Obama did. Healthcare is a state issue not a Federal one.

Much of that was clever refocusing by the Romney campaign to not totally alienate Republican small-government types.

Lastly, what you probably mean is "Healthcare ought to be a state issue, not a Federal one." Healthcare can be either, but you prefer it be closed to the purview of the state.
 
Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses', despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.

That's the thing many conservatives have started to forget. They have drifted so far away from their elitist roots in Hamilton that they are now just right-wing populists. The masses do need a certain degree of directing. Liberals are sometimes hopeless in their directing, but conservatives have embraced the average fool as somehow being politically virtuous.
 
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