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Thread: Stupidity of the American Voter?

  1. #871
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Romney was just the lesser of two evils. I'm sure you can work that out.
    The Democrat Party tag line "There is such a thing as a free lunch, and soon we are adding tacos to the menu."

    The Republican Party tag line "Yes, we are liars and progressives too, but we are the lesser of two evils."

    No thanks.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

    I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses', despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

    'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.
    This is the point that usually gets missed in these discussions even if you take out all the numbnuts who just want to accuse, blame, or demonize the other guy instead of focusing on what actually happened and/or what should happen.

    There is nothing wrong with 'socialization' of some public services so long as it is mutually agreed via social contract on a local level--at the very least a no higher than the state level. It only makes sense for the citizens to pool resources and share fire services, police protection, public schools, public libraries, city streets, sewers, water systems, hospitals, etc. Such benefit all and relieve each family from having to arrange for and provide that for each household. And it makes sense for the community to elect persons who will be entrusted to administer the shared systems and services and do planning for expansion that benefits all. This is as the founders intended and it works best the more local it is because it can be tailored for the particular local needs of a particular community.

    The disconnect comes when some want the federal government to impose what they want on the states - on everybody whether they agree to it or not. And that is when oppressive laws and totalitarian concepts start coming into play. A national speed limit, for instance, is absurd given the wide varieties in terrain and conditions found across the nation. Ditto a national minimum wage, at least above the level intended to prevent slave labor. Each area is different and the cost of living widely varies rendering federal establishment of a 'living wage' really and counter productive for many.

    With the consent of the people, a statewide healthcare law might work in Massachusetts with a relatively small, homogenous population and relatively minor welfare or illegal immigration issues, but the same law would be very wrong for other states with very different issues and situations to deal with. That is why the Founders intended that the states organize their own societies and that would never be the prerogative of the federal government.

    The 'stupidity of the American voter' comes in when the people fail to see how the federal government is taking more and more power and is constantly growing government to enforce that power. It consumes more and more of the nation's resources just to maintain that ever more enormous and bloated bureaucracy, and it is more and more taking away the people's rights, options, choices, and opportunities to create the sorts of societies they want to have.

    Our elected leaders consistently attempt to fool us that what they do is for our good, our benefit, our blessings when in fact what they are doing is increasing their own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

    Obamacare is an example of this in the most serious way.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeburte View Post
    Mitt Romney did something similar years before in MA, and conservatives overwhelmingly voted for him in 2012. This just proved that conservative ideology is based around combating Obama, and that they are pretty apathetic when it comes to the destruction of socialism.
    Obviously you don't understand a state program vs a one size fits all Federal Program. Suggest you learn what Romney actually did vs what Obama did. Healthcare is a state issue not a Federal one.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obviously you don't understand a state program vs a one size fits all Federal Program. Suggest you learn what Romney actually did vs what Obama did. Healthcare is a state issue not a Federal one.
    Much of that was clever refocusing by the Romney campaign to not totally alienate Republican small-government types.

    Lastly, what you probably mean is "Healthcare ought to be a state issue, not a Federal one." Healthcare can be either, but you prefer it be closed to the purview of the state.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Left alone Jonathan Gruber would have disappeared after a while but what makes this story interesting, and a lot of fun, are the people who now never heard of him, defend hm, claim it was someone else's fault, and so on.

    I've followed Leftist politics for quite a while now and they always claim to know what's best for 'the masses', despite their infamous screw-ups over the years. I've no doubt that Gruber is representative of Left Wing leaders and that his fellow travelers believe themselves to be remarkably sophisticated about economics, human needs and understand intuitively and definitely what other people need and want in their lives.

    'The masses' are always other people, "and we can all understand why it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations". The masses have to be told what's good for them.
    That's the thing many conservatives have started to forget. They have drifted so far away from their elitist roots in Hamilton that they are now just right-wing populists. The masses do need a certain degree of directing. Liberals are sometimes hopeless in their directing, but conservatives have embraced the average fool as somehow being politically virtuous.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obviously you don't understand a state program vs a one size fits all Federal Program. Suggest you learn what Romney actually did vs what Obama did. Healthcare is a state issue not a Federal one.
    In my state we don't like socialism.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeburte View Post
    In my state we don't like socialism.
    What state is that, advanced Multiple Personality Disorder?
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    It stared there remember, and we close on "tortured language" and how stupid are the American voters......
    Nothing you just said makes any sense, so I cannot really respond to it.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    You can stop that line of bull anytime now. I was one of those whose individual plan was cancelled. There was nothing wrong with the plan and I very much did use it. It is the obamacare approved plan they wanted to stick me with that I could not have used unless something catastrophic happened to me.
    Perhaps you are telling the truth. Can you tell me more about the plan details and why it was cancelled?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Prior to Obamacare, the free marker health insurance worked out quite well for me. However after Obamacare passed, with the exception of life insurance, dental and vision, I dropped out of the private insurance market altogether. I am not about to pay $700.00 monthly premiums for a $6000.00 deductible policy. I am now covered on VA Healthcare.
    That's a nice personal story. Great to hear. Have you tried your state's market place? I'd love to hear the differences between the plan you had and the plan they are offering. Something substantial besides your stories would be great.

    In other news, those who signed up for Obamacare are as happy with it as those with regular private insurance.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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