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Thread: Stupidity of the American Voter?

  1. #501
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    It's not ignoring it. The local (municipal and county) and state elections are carried out by the exact same people electing US Senators and Reps. Do you not understand that? If you go to the polls you vote local, state, and US all at the same time. So how does this change the nature of the voter turn out? Sour grapes? Hardly. It's not the end of the world nor is it the beginning of a new one. You folks that play in this "Us against Them" game of American politics can have your victory parties and gloat, or wallow in despair. I don't care. It will swing back eventually. Either way I can't care. Nothing is going to change in two years.

    What I do UNDERSTAND is the distinction between a trend and one time occurrence.

    The GOP has been gaining seats for some time now.

    And you may be right, given enough time we DID go from Reagan to Obama.

    I think the difference is the lefts ideology isn't just failing here in the US, its failing all over the world.

    The more the World shifts towards Liberalism, Socialism and Progressivism the worse things become.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    For the die hards of both parties the debate goes, Is too, Is not, Is too, Is not. Yeah. Integrity, honesty, common virtues have been replaced by the attitude of I am the elite and I know what is best for you. You are too dumb to figure what is good and bad for you by yourself.
    Well, they do rely on the "low information voter" to get anywhere. That suggests they automatically think the voter is stupid, and until last Tuesday they had a very valid argument.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yeah. Integrity, honesty, common virtues have been replaced by the attitude of I am the elite and I know what is best for you. You are too dumb to figure what is good and bad for you by yourself.
    That is the essence of Liberalism.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Union bosses that generate not one red penny to the profit of a company certainly are doing well. Why isn't that discussed

    Union bosses' salaries put 'big' in Big Labor - Washington Times
    OK, since people seemed to have missed it

    Let me preface my next response by saying I am an advocate for union reformation.
    But, let me ask you this one simple, easily recognizable question which "your side" (since that is the direction this conversation is taking) loves to put out there -- What do you care how much someone else makes? That's the question always posed when people kvetch about executive salaries. Why do you care? What business is it of yours? Please don't insult everyone here by saying you're merely bleeding your little heart out for the poor, helpless, hapless worker who's a victim of organized labor. What you're doing is demonizing the opposition. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Last edited by ChezC3; 11-12-14 at 05:32 PM.
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    You mean the Right To Work For Less legislation, right? Let me preface my next response by saying I am an advocate for union reformation. Why are you seemingly willing to exclude unions from the political process? You might say it is taking union dues from workers who'd vote one way and send it the other. OK, but so does corporations. Now, if you're advocating in all or in part private money being excluded from the political process I'd be a friend and ally. If you're merely saying that these guys shouldn't have collective clout and say nothing of the flip side of that coin, well, obviously we'd have a discrepancy.

    Let me provide full disclosure and divulge I've been a Teamster. Many, all-to-many times I felt that my union dues were merely going to cover the cost of protecting lazy, good for nothing, POS who should be kicked out on their ass. I showed up every day, got excellent reviews, did my job without fail and for all intents, didn't need union representation. Now my pay at the time was about 30-40% more than at a non union shop. It was that way because of union representation. So, what those 30% of teachers did essentially is say, well, we got what we got because of the union and now, well, piss off. The other end of the bargaining table loves this. Why? because it provides the context and framework to slowly, ever-so-slowly chip away at all the rights, benefits, salaries that the Union got them, which could have only be gotten through solidarity in collective bargaining.

    Again, this isn't where the main ire I have lies, if people are too stupid to realize this is nothing but a "divide and conquer" strategy, they deserve what they get. God don't save stupid.
    I have no animus towards unions in general and agree they've benefited workers through collective bargaining - but employee relations, discipline and negotiations is all they should be collectively involved in, particularly with the use of union dues. If unions have $100s of millions of dollars to give to Democrat candidates, then they have $100s of millions of dollars they should return to hard working union members and lower union dues.

    Unions are not the same as corporations, unless you're talking about public corporations. Private entities are different. I'd be more inclined to let both sides participate in the political process if their participation was shared based on the wishes of those they represent. At least on the side of corporations, they donate funds to both parties and candidates in both parties, although at different levels depending on the issues and the candidates. I don't know a single union that donates anything to Republican candidates or the party. Perhaps you do.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Gimme some of that popcorn, MMC. From your link...
    The Democrats Civil War.....is that like Three's Company?

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I have no animus towards unions in general and agree they've benefited workers through collective bargaining - but employee relations, discipline and negotiations is all they should be collectively involved in, particularly with the use of union dues. If unions have $100s of millions of dollars to give to Democrat candidates, then they have $100s of millions of dollars they should return to hard working union members and lower union dues.

    Unions are not the same as corporations, unless you're talking about public corporations. Private entities are different. I'd be more inclined to let both sides participate in the political process if their participation was shared based on the wishes of those they represent. At least on the side of corporations, they donate funds to both parties and candidates in both parties, although at different levels depending on the issues and the candidates. I don't know a single union that donates anything to Republican candidates or the party. Perhaps you do.
    So you'd exclude Labor from lobbying?

    I am speaking of publicly traded corps. I agree that union/stockholder membership should have more of a say, that would be part of the reformation I was speaking of.

    Federal unions pushing mostly Democratic candidates, but also some Republicans - The Washington Post

    Now, I don't believe that the Democratic Party is a friend of Labor. They're a mix of the New Left and Corporate Dems. The New Left doesn't focus too much on these issues, while corporate dems all too often only provide lip service to them.
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Pero. It appears Howard Dean has had enough.




    Liberal Civil War Continues: Howard Dean Calls Obamacare Architects Elitist......


    Within 24 hours of the 2014 midterm election results pouring in, handing the Senate over to Republicans, outgoing Majority Leader Harry Reid unleashed his chief-of-staff to the Washington Post where he slammed the Obama White House for the Democrat bloodbath.

    The problem is not that he said it. The problem is that he thinks it. The core problem under the damn law is it was put together by a bunch of elitists two don’t fundamentally understand the American people. That’s what the problem is," Dean said in response to Gruber's comments on MSNBC's Morning Joe.

    It should be noted that when Dean talks about Gruber not "fundamentally understanding Americans," he's referring to those in his far-left base who want single-payer healthcare. Regardless, the civil war and the sniping within the Democrat party continues.....snip~

    Liberal Civil War Continues: Howard Dean Calls Obamacare Architects Elitist - Katie Pavlich


    The ACA has been an albatross around the Democrats neck which lead directly to the 2010 loss of the house and the 2014 loss of the senate. Among other things of course. It is true Obama won in 2012 but he won against a candidate who had Romneycare in his background and was afraid to bring Obamacare up as the Democrats had a very good response for it if he did.

    Yes, the Democrats have been trying to get socialized medicine or government run health care through for a very long time. But what the Democrats did with the ACA is give us socialized health insurance. The fact we are still talking about this 5 years after it was passed and the majority of Americans still oppose it, that should tell the Democrats something. But they continue to ignore the people.

    Do I want those without healthcare to have it, of course I do. But I don't want the ACA as it does not accomplish that.

    With medicare JFK started the debate and started congress working on it shortly after he was inaugurated. That debate continued for 5 years before any legislation was proposed and passed. Back then the Democrats made sure they had the people on their side along with quite a lot of Republicans. In 1964 a full year before medicare was passed the polls were showing 61% for, 31% against. Now compare the two:

    Medicare votes in Congress – Over 60% of the American Public was in favor of Medicare before it was introduced to congress.
    House – Democrats 237 AYE 48 NAY – Republicans 70 AYE 68 NAY
    Senate – Democrats 57 AYE 7 NAY – Republicans 13 AYE 17 NAY

    Obamacare votes in Congress – Only 35% of the American Public was in favor of Obamacare and 58% against it before it was introduced to congress.
    House – Democrats 220 AYE 36 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 179 NAY
    Senate – Democrats 60 AYE 0 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 39 NAY

    Is it no wonder the ACA or Obamacare continues to haunt the Democrats. Right, wrong or indifferent, the Democrats own health care and as long as over half of all Americans are opposed to it, it will continue to haunt them into the far future.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #509
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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    What I do UNDERSTAND is the distinction between a trend and one time occurrence.

    The GOP has been gaining seats for some time now.

    And you may be right, given enough time we DID go from Reagan to Obama.

    I think the difference is the lefts ideology isn't just failing here in the US, its failing all over the world.

    The more the World shifts towards Liberalism, Socialism and Progressivism the worse things become.
    Explain to me how the ideology is actually failing here? Versus say just the Fox News presentation that it is. Hell, everybody is still saying Obama is hated but he has like a 42% job approval rating. Is it possible for us strip away the hyper partisan political rhetoric that infects our electoral process and get a clear picture on where this nations actually stands on conservatism vs liberalism? Because if the general election starts pushing back the other way, like it did in 2008, your argument here is busted. What I think we are seeing is a very well planned out and financed media campaign and a very lazy American voting populace. Neither side REALLY took these midterms too seriously. The record low also applied to Republicans. I am just banking on the gullibility of the American public to prove the same point it always does. They can be bought via the idiot box and talk radio. The Democrats will obstruct just like the Republicans did. The Republicans will appear ineffective. There will be a huge amount of money poured into the propaganda machines, and this thing will play out again like it always does. I just don't see these midterms as indicating anything historical or game changing.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    OK, since people seemed to have missed it



    But, let me ask you this one simple, easily recognizable question which "your side" (since that is the direction this conversation is taking) loves to put out there -- What do you care how much someone else makes? That's the question always posed when people kvetch about executive salaries. Why do you care? What business is it of yours? Please don't insult everyone here by saying you're merely bleeding your little heart out for the poor, helpless, hapless worker who's a victim of organized labor. What you're doing is demonizing the opposition. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I don't care what someone else makes only extortion to generate the money much of which goes to the union bosses that do absolutely nothing to grow the business.

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