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Thread: Stupidity of the American Voter?

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    These studies are done all the time, here's one.

    US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives - The Commonwealth Fund





    Essentially Americans pay more for and have less access to healthcare. Obamacare has really done nothing substantial to address that. It merely makes us all buy insurance. So there's some numbers that will change, but there's no dynamic that would affect the cost or true access by the populace in general. The article I linked seems to hold out hope for the Affordable Care Act, but I don't. It's been in effect for sometime, and I don't think we've seen much movement in terms of pricing and access. If they can produce the honest numbers, I'll change my tune, but it remains to be seen.
    I that this is an honest appraisal and and if anyone cares what this old foggie thinks, a pretty accurate one.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    These studies are done all the time, here's one.

    US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives - The Commonwealth Fund





    Essentially Americans pay more for and have less access to healthcare. Obamacare has really done nothing substantial to address that. It merely makes us all buy insurance. So there's some numbers that will change, but there's no dynamic that would affect the cost or true access by the populace in general. The article I linked seems to hold out hope for the Affordable Care Act, but I don't. It's been in effect for sometime, and I don't think we've seen much movement in terms of pricing and access. If they can produce the honest numbers, I'll change my tune, but it remains to be seen.
    I don't really trust the Commonwealth Fund as an objective source, but I do agree completely with your last paragraph. For a couple million people, Obamacare has been a help, but for the remaining 300 million it has not been good at all and will only get worse as the bad parts that got temporary delays start to feel the true effects. I don't understand how even liberals can support Obamacare. Its a disaster.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    These studies are done all the time, here's one.

    US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives - The Commonwealth Fund





    Essentially Americans pay more for and have less access to healthcare. Obamacare has really done nothing substantial to address that. It merely makes us all buy insurance. So there's some numbers that will change, but there's no dynamic that would affect the cost or true access by the populace in general. The article I linked seems to hold out hope for the Affordable Care Act, but I don't. It's been in effect for sometime, and I don't think we've seen much movement in terms of pricing and access. If they can produce the honest numbers, I'll change my tune, but it remains to be seen.
    I think most liberals would argue that it won't have an effect until more people are on it. The entire premise behind lowering costs is:

    1) Law of large numbers
    2) Pooling
    3) Everyone paying in (instead of the current system where people skip out on bills they can't afford)

    If a large part of the population is still uninsured, that's all out of the window. Health care is not an option, so why shouldn't our system be based off of that axiom?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think most liberals would argue that it won't have an effect until more people are on it. The entire premise behind lowering costs is:

    1) Law of large numbers
    2) Pooling
    3) Everyone paying in (instead of the current system where people skip out on bills they can't afford)

    If a large part of the population is still uninsured, that's all out of the window. Health care is not an option, so why shouldn't our system be based off of that axiom?
    I'm not opposed to arguments and discussion for an actual universal healthcare system. My point is that Obamacare isn't it. Obamacare is essentially a payout to the Insurance Companies, nothing more. It's not an attempt at for real Universal Healthcare. Bush had Medicare Part D to payout to his Pharmaceutical buddies, Obama has Obamacare to payout to his Insurance buddies. It's the same corporate elite over the People dynamic.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not opposed to arguments and discussion for an actual universal healthcare system. My point is that Obamacare isn't it. Obamacare is essentially a payout to the Insurance Companies, nothing more. It's not an attempt at for real Universal Healthcare. Bush had Medicare Part D to payout to his Pharmaceutical buddies, Obama has Obamacare to payout to his Insurance buddies. It's the same corporate elite over the People dynamic.
    Its not a payout if people cannot afford health insurance.

    If their rates and or deductibles rise to the point where paying the TAX is their only option the Insurance companies LOSE.

    If Companies dump their employees to fend for themselves to health insurance companies LOSE.

    Obama said himself that his objective was to get rid of the health insurance industry.

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is just measured fact. Currently Americans pay more for and have less access to healthcare than any other developed nation. Obamacare did nothing to rectify that. It's not actual universal healthcare. It merely states that we all have to buy private insurance, it guarantees full consumership for the insurance companies. Nothing more. There was no real attempt at universal healthcare, Obamacare merely funnels money from the American people to the private insurance companies. It's like saying "universal car coverage" because we all are forced to buy car insurance.

    Do you contend this?
    Ofcourse not, so your for universal health care?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ofcourse not, so your for universal health care?
    I could be convinced if we designed an intelligent system. But that's quite the tall order.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I could be convinced if we designed an intelligent system. But that's quite the tall order.
    Well, color me intrigued. I don't think I know a single libertarian that would be in favor of Big Government taking control of such a large portion of the economy. What is it that you would consider "an intelligent system" run by Government? And how would someone convince you?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, color me intrigued. I don't think I know a single libertarian that would be in favor of Big Government taking control of such a large portion of the economy. What is it that you would consider "an intelligent system" run by Government? And how would someone convince you?
    Well I try to stay away from absolutes, because one never really knows until a situation is reached. But if you ask the base question as to whether or not government could be used as an aggregate system to provide healthcare and in doing so can provides greater access for less money; the answer is yes. In fact, this is one of the things government does well, much better than private industry. It can aggregate large systems and it can do so on long time scales. So it is indeed possible to gain greater access to healthcare while paying less overall by using government. And if we set a system up like that, then I would pay attention to it and the details. An intelligent system would be one that did exactly this. It's set up for the People, it serves the People well, it functions properly (not like our VA hospitals), it saves us money and allows us to heal our citizens on reasonable time scales. This is possible to do with government, but it's not easy and it will take work to maintain (much like the Republic in general).

    But since the answer is yes, I remain open to the possibilities. It would be great to pay less and have more access to healthcare.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Stupidity of the American Voter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    ObamaCare architect says lack of transparency helped law pass, cites 'stupidity of the American voter' | Fox News

    Based upon the last election looks to me like the American voter is waking up. Wonder why he still has a 41% JAR
    Libertarians are already awake. Right-wingers still need their pacifier--

    "Prolife, nuke the arabs, deport the spics, kill all the fags, GUNS GUNS GUNS HELL YEAH!"

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