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Big review set by Democrats after election losses

Henrin said:
Yes, labor has a certain marketable value. What evil stuff there. :roll:
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I have not used the word evil regarding any of this.
 
Deuce said:
I have not used the word evil regarding any of this.
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Do you know why spend any money on welfare? Because of people like you.
 
Deuce said:
And there it is. This is the mindset that leads to this situation. The circular logic of the value of human labor, you are why we spend so much on welfare.
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In other words, you didn't have an intelligent response so you pointed fingers and pretended I'm to blame. Gotcha. :roll:
 
Deuce said:
I have not used the word evil regarding any of this.
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What is actually wrong about wages being determined by value? What would you base it on? That someone is human and needs stuff?
 
soot said:
That's not really a fair comparison.

NPR airs over 30 programs nationally, only a small handful of which ever deal with current news and/or politics.

While those programs may have 30 million weekly listeners in aggregate none of them approach anything like those numbers individually or on a daily basis.

Now, if you want to argue that something like the Diane Rehm program is overwhelmingly liberal I'd be inclined to agree with you, but that particular program is only pulling in around 2 million listeners weekly.

Most of the NPR programming I listen to is decidedly middle-of-the-road. If it wasn't, if it was biased in either direction, I wouldn't waste my time listening to it (as I don't listen to Diane Rehm's progressive screed).

For what it's worth, NPR also airs programming that tends to lean a bit more conservative. Not overwhelmingly so, but there's certainly a slight lean. I'd suggest listening to the Marketplace program a time or two if you're interested. It revolves more around business (the "marketplace" - duh) than politics, but when it does dip into politics or policy it tends to be with a fairly rational, slightly conservative slant (as one might expect from a program that speaks to business issues).
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I appreciate the defense of NPR. However, there is a reason certain groups and individuals donate to it. Beyond that, the greater point remains valid.
 
grip said:
The margin of percentage that many Republicans won by was small, but the amount of wins in the senate and governors was a political shellacking. I hope you don't work for Dem campaigns, because those who refuse to see anything wrong, will get it again.
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Again....you are trying to extropolate something that isn't there. Extensive exit polling clearly demonstrates that this was not a rejection of Democratic policies or an embracement of Republicans. What you had was a number of Democrats in red states losing their seats to Republicans. Hardly something that was out of the ordinary, especially in a mid-term election. I suspect that in 2016 when Republicans have a lot more seats in play to defend, with the election of our next Democratic President, there will likely be a shift in the other direction.
 
disneydude said:
Again....you are trying to extropolate something that isn't there. Extensive exit polling clearly demonstrates that this was not a rejection of Democratic policies or an embracement of Republicans. What you had was a number of Democrats in red states losing their seats to Republicans. Hardly something that was out of the ordinary, especially in a mid-term election. I suspect that in 2016 when Republicans have a lot more seats in play to defend, with the election of our next Democratic President, there will likely be a shift in the other direction.
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Tell that to this article.. News from The Associated Press

Judging by the exit polls, people who vote for Democrats and those who back Republicans seem to be living in different countries. Those on either side of the aisle express sharply divergent views on top issues, making it difficult for lawmakers to discern a clear mandate for governing. A look at some of the differences exit polls revealed between those voting for Democrats and those who back Republicans on the issues and in their day-to-day lives:

ON THE ISSUES:

-Fifty-four percent of those who voted for Democrats said the country is headed in the right direction, while 88 percent of Republican voters think it's on the wrong track.

-Nearly 9 in 10 of those who voted for Republicans think the economy is in bad shape, compared with just over half of Democratic voters.

-Two-thirds of Democratic voters think the economy is either improving or in good shape and staying that way. Eight in 10 Republican voters think the economy is bad and stagnant or getting worse.

-Sixty-four percent of Republican voters, but only 30 percent of Democratic voters, think life for the next generation of Americans will be worse than life today.

-On climate change, 86 percent of those who backed Democrats called it a serious problem; two-thirds of Republican voters said it's not a serious issue.

-More than 8 in 10 Republican voters, but only 6 in 10 Democratic voters, are worried about the threat of terrorism.

-Nearly two-thirds of those backing the GOP say marijuana use should be illegal, most Democratic voters disagree.
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Jetboogieman said:
I wouldn't say that necessarily,

1) It's that they implemented many policies people believe haven't worked. can't blame them for that.

2) Their base generally doesn't vote during mid terms

3) thats just how the American Political Pendulum swings.

I wouldn't say with the gridlock in congress that the Liberal Agenda has been pushed very hard, America is still the same old Fast Food consuming, gas guzzling, corporate oligarchy it's always been.

There's alot of self congratulatory triumphalism among conservatives at the moment but I would remind them this now means they actually have to... you know... govern and it wasn't too long ago they were the ones being kicked out of congress on their ass. It will one day go the other way again.

My advice is stop congratulating yourselves and start getting down to work, if you've got the chops to run this country better than the democrats, you better start quick.
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What gridlock ?

Obama's policies have caused a significant amount of damage. Its WHY the Democrats got stomped.

The gridlock started and stopped with the Democrats and Obama.
 
disneydude said:
Again....you are trying to extropolate something that isn't there. Extensive exit polling clearly demonstrates that this was not a rejection of Democratic policies or an embracement of Republicans. What you had was a number of Democrats in red states losing their seats to Republicans. Hardly something that was out of the ordinary, especially in a mid-term election. I suspect that in 2016 when Republicans have a lot more seats in play to defend, with the election of our next Democratic President, there will likely be a shift in the other direction.
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LOL !!

Some people are more loyal to their partisan ideology than the truth.

Voters who had NO problems with Democrat policies chose Republicans ?

This was indeed a repudiation of Democrat policies.
 
disneydude said:
Again....you are trying to extropolate something that isn't there. Extensive exit polling clearly demonstrates that this was not a rejection of Democratic policies or an embracement of Republicans. What you had was a number of Democrats in red states losing their seats to Republicans. Hardly something that was out of the ordinary, especially in a mid-term election. I suspect that in 2016 when Republicans have a lot more seats in play to defend, with the election of our next Democratic President, there will likely be a shift in the other direction.
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I think last Tuesday to be sure was a lot of red states returning to their roots. But there was also loses in Iowa and Colorado in the senate plus governorship in Maryland, Massachusetts and Illinois. If I was a Democrat up for re-election in 2016 I would be worried about Obama Fatigue much like voters had Bush fatigue back in 2008. Some interesting stats from exit polls, some partisan, some not:
65% of voters say the country is headed on the wrong track
34% of voters said they were voting against Obama, 20% said they voted for Obama
44% of voters view the Democratic Party favorably, 53% unfavorably
40% of voters view the Republican Party favorably, 55% unfavorably
No love there for either party
59% of voters said they were dissatisfied with President Obama to include 23% who said they were angry.
78% of voters are worried about the economy in the years ahead.

There’s more, just read here.

National Exit Poll Reveals Major Voter Discontent in Midterm Elections - ABC News
 
Perotista said:
I think last Tuesday to be sure was a lot of red states returning to their roots. But there was also loses in Iowa and Colorado in the senate plus governorship in Maryland, Massachusetts and Illinois. If I was a Democrat up for re-election in 2016 I would be worried about Obama Fatigue much like voters had Bush fatigue back in 2008. Some interesting stats from exit polls, some partisan, some not:
65% of voters say the country is headed on the wrong track
34% of voters said they were voting against Obama, 20% said they voted for Obama
44% of voters view the Democratic Party favorably, 53% unfavorably
40% of voters view the Republican Party favorably, 55% unfavorably
No love there for either party
59% of voters said they were dissatisfied with President Obama to include 23% who said they were angry.
78% of voters are worried about the economy in the years ahead.

There’s more, just read here.

National Exit Poll Reveals Major Voter Discontent in Midterm Elections - ABC News
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It seems to me that the average person feels some uncertainty with who is governing them, and therefore some lost control of their own future..
 
Grant said:
It seems to me that the average person feels some uncertainty with who is governing them, and therefore some lost control of their own future..
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That is one way to put it, a good one. A couple of exit polls: 78% of voters are worried about the economy in the years ahead. Talk about the future, 78% is a huge number of voters to be worried about their economic conditions. While the Democrats were talking about the war on women, the voters were worried about their pocket books.

To go along with that: 65% of voters say the country is headed on the wrong track. In other words a majority of Americans do not think the president has the country headed in the right direction.
 
Meister said:
Yup...if it was about healthcare, the feds could have had a safety net in place for the 10% without up heaving the other 90% of the population to acquire it.
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But that would have only allowed the federal government to intrude more deeply into the lives and affairs of 10% of the population. The Democrats would never have settled for that, if they thought they could get more.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The guy on the losing end in an unquestionably historic defeat is giving advice to the victors.

That, I suggest, is what's wrong with the Democratic party, they need to stop being better than everyone else.
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I don't remember Jetboogieman running for office.
 
tres borrachos said:
I think it's their candidates that changed, as I haven't noticed anything about their platform that changed. In the past the GOP ran some pretty shocking candidates - Sharron Angle, Todd the "Legitimate Rape" guy, Richard Mourdock, that bimbo Christine something or other who challenged Chris Coons, etc. and those idiots not only shot themselves in the foot, but the entire GOP as well.
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The GOP would have already HAD the Senate if they hadn't run the Whackadoodle Brigade in 2010.

Angle, O'Donnell, Joe Miller in Alaska and Ken Buck in Colorado all were Tea Party nutters who lost extremely winnable races in 2010 due to the fact that they were loony tunes. Add those four seats and it would have been a 51-47 Republican advantage.
 
Perotista said:
That is one way to put it, a good one. A couple of exit polls: 78% of voters are worried about the economy in the years ahead. Talk about the future, 78% is a huge number of voters to be worried about their economic conditions. While the Democrats were talking about the war on women, the voters were worried about their pocket books.

To go along with that: 65% of voters say the country is headed on the wrong track. In other words a majority of Americans do not think the president has the country headed in the right direction.
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I'm not sure the President even has a direction. Whatever philosophies he may have gained were a result of the educational system but not much through hard experience. Of course he has a great deal of confidence in whatever he learned during that period but a lot of that may be ideological rather than based on practical experience.

When the practical and philosophical meet then the conflicts begin, and we can see that happening in his relationship with others as well as, perhaps, on a more personal level. He seems to carry the "Trust Me, I'm A Harvard Grad" banner with some largely unwarranted confidence..
 
disneydude said:
Again....you are trying to extropolate something that isn't there. Extensive exit polling clearly demonstrates that this was not a rejection of Democratic policies or an embracement of Republicans. What you had was a number of Democrats in red states losing their seats to Republicans. Hardly something that was out of the ordinary, especially in a mid-term election. I suspect that in 2016 when Republicans have a lot more seats in play to defend, with the election of our next Democratic President, there will likely be a shift in the other direction.
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I agree with the part about 2016 and the senate, with 24 seats to defend vs. 10 for the Democrats the math is in the Democrats favor. Look at who and where, the playing field I can easily see the Democrats picking up 6 seats. But that will all depend on what happens between now and then. If as it seems to be happening, Obama fatigue sets in and lasts much like it did for Bush the second, just gaining a couple of seats could end up being hard.

ABC's exit polls also had this: • Midterm voters divide 35-39 percent between Hillary Clinton and an unnamed Republican candidate; 23 percent say it depends.

The above really doesn't mean anything as back in 2012 the unnamed or generic Republican candidate was always beating President Obama. Once Romney was nominated Obama took the lead never to look back. But it is interesting.
 
Perotista said:
The above really doesn't mean anything as back in 2012 the unnamed or generic Republican candidate was always beating President Obama. Once Romney was nominated Obama took the lead never to look back. But it is interesting.
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It has been said that many Republicans stayed home election day 2012 because they considered Romney a RINO. Perhaps the lesson has been learned and they will go to the polls next time, RINO or not.
 
What the Democrats don't get is that were it not for Ross Perot's splinter party taking votes away from Bush in 1992, the only President they would have had elected in the past 30 years prior to Obama was Carter .. way back in 1976!

They also need to get over themselves about Obama. He was a novelty candidate. That's why he won; people wanted the novelty.

But now they know that it will take more than running another novelty candidate again -- Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife --, it will require that they take a position on the issues that is at the center of the political spectrum, and that the candidate they field will need to be able to convince the populace they can be trusted to actually behave as a centrist if elected.

Obama was just overwhelmed .. and the rest of the Democrat candidates were just way too far left.

That doesn't mean the Repubs are out of the woods.

Though the Repubs have a tendency to be trusted to do what they say they'll do, not go off half-cocked like the liberals, they've simply got to field a Presidential candidate that exemplifies some solid, balanced psychological stability.

That means no John McCains, no TPers, No cult apologetics practitioners .. and no Sarah Palins anywhere in sight.

Back in the late 1990s, Former President Bush thought his son Jeb was the better candidate, and was a bit surprised they picked son GWB.

Maybe the Repubs would do well to consider the ex-President's thoughts.
 
Grant said:
I'm not sure the President even has a direction. Whatever philosophies he may have gained were a result of the educational system but not much through hard experience. Of course he has a great deal of confidence in whatever he learned during that period but a lot of that may be ideological rather than based on practical experience.

When the practical and philosophical meet then the conflicts begin, and we can see that happening in his relationship with others as well as, perhaps, on a more personal level. He seems to carry the "Trust Me, I'm A Harvard Grad" banner with some largely unwarranted confidence..
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The president seems once more to be ignoring the economy in favor of immigration reform. In a thread and a post earlier I was discussing Obama and Bill Clinton. Clinton got a lot done and accomplished after 1994 working with a Republican congress. But the difference and I hope I wasn't talking to you is both entered their presidency as ideologues. But after 1994 Clinton changed tactics and strategy and became a pragmatist in order to accomplish what he wanted. Obama after 2010 didn't change from ideologue to pragmatist, I doubt he will change after this year either.

Another way I put it Clinton after 1994 was willing to take a half a loaf in order to move his agenda along while passing the other half to the Republican congress. With this president it is the whole loaf or nothing.
 
Grant said:
It has been said that many Republicans stayed home election day 2012 because they considered Romney a RINO. Perhaps the lesson has been learned and they will go to the polls next time, RINO or not.
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I heard the same thing. So I checked out the census bureau stats. The percentage of whites who voted in 2008 was 66.1% vs. 64.1% a drop of approximate 2 million votes. The fact Romney lost by over 5 million votes, even if whites had voted in the same percentage the final outcome would have been the same. But that was offset due to the fact Romney received 59% of the white vote vs. 55% for McCain. Romney's share of the white vote was 4 points higher making total white turn out a wash.
 
soot said:
That's not really a fair comparison.

NPR airs over 30 programs nationally, only a small handful of which ever deal with current news and/or politics.

While those programs may have 30 million weekly listeners in aggregate none of them approach anything like those numbers individually or on a daily basis.

Now, if you want to argue that something like the Diane Rehm program is overwhelmingly liberal I'd be inclined to agree with you, but that particular program is only pulling in around 2 million listeners weekly.

Most of the NPR programming I listen to is decidedly middle-of-the-road. If it wasn't, if it was biased in either direction, I wouldn't waste my time listening to it (as I don't listen to Diane Rehm's progressive screed).

For what it's worth, NPR also airs programming that tends to lean a bit more conservative. Not overwhelmingly so, but there's certainly a slight lean. I'd suggest listening to the Marketplace program a time or two if you're interested. It revolves more around business (the "marketplace" - duh) than politics, but when it does dip into politics or policy it tends to be with a fairly rational, slightly conservative slant (as one might expect from a program that speaks to business issues).
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Is NPR still state-run media? I think it is time for it to have any government funding withheld. Let it stand, or fall, on its own.
 
Perotista said:
I think last Tuesday to be sure was a lot of red states returning to their roots. But there was also loses in Iowa and Colorado in the senate plus governorship in Maryland, Massachusetts and Illinois. If I was a Democrat up for re-election in 2016 I would be worried about Obama Fatigue much like voters had Bush fatigue back in 2008. Some interesting stats from exit polls, some partisan, some not:
65% of voters say the country is headed on the wrong track
34% of voters said they were voting against Obama, 20% said they voted for Obama
44% of voters view the Democratic Party favorably, 53% unfavorably
40% of voters view the Republican Party favorably, 55% unfavorably
No love there for either party
59% of voters said they were dissatisfied with President Obama to include 23% who said they were angry.
78% of voters are worried about the economy in the years ahead.

There’s more, just read here.

National Exit Poll Reveals Major Voter Discontent in Midterm Elections - ABC News
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28% of Americans still think GWB was a good President.....so that should tell you something about 1/3 of the people in this country. None of those stats surprise me when you consider that figure.
 
Perotista said:
I agree with the part about 2016 and the senate, with 24 seats to defend vs. 10 for the Democrats the math is in the Democrats favor. Look at who and where, the playing field I can easily see the Democrats picking up 6 seats. But that will all depend on what happens between now and then. If as it seems to be happening, Obama fatigue sets in and lasts much like it did for Bush the second, just gaining a couple of seats could end up being hard.

ABC's exit polls also had this: • Midterm voters divide 35-39 percent between Hillary Clinton and an unnamed Republican candidate; 23 percent say it depends.

The above really doesn't mean anything as back in 2012 the unnamed or generic Republican candidate was always beating President Obama. Once Romney was nominated Obama took the lead never to look back. But it is interesting.
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If the country is on the brink of bankruptcy in 2016 like it was under GWB in 2012, you might have a point...and Obama fatigue may kick in. I doubt that the country will be anywhere near the horrible shape it was in under GWB when Obama leaves it to the next woman.
 
disneydude said:
28% of Americans still think GWB was a good President.....so that should tell you something about 1/3 of the people in this country. None of those stats surprise me when you consider that figure.
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Myself, I think both Bush the second and Obama are below average presidents. But a Republican will tell you different about Bush and a Democrat will tell you different about Obama. I think both are in denial as to the truth. But I will kick back and relax and let the historians sort that out.

I think the truth in the situation today is how the majority of people dislike both political parties as they continue to move to the right and to the left leaving the majority of Americans which are in the middle behind them, without a political home. Over 60% of independents dislike both parties. But that also makes sense because if they like a political party they would be a member of it.

I do not think think last week was a victory or a defeat for any ideology or even a political party. I think it was just the voters telling everyone they do not like what has been going on and are afraid that the country and their financial situation is headed down the tubes. When the electorate feels like this regardless of party, it kicks the party in power out. The party in power is the party who holds the presidency.

In short, there was no mandate outside of telling the elected officials to get this country straighten out and headed in the right direction. If you don't we will do like we did in 2006, then again in 2010 and last week.
 
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