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Big review set by Democrats after election losses

And yet only 10-15% were previously uninsured. We could have easily choked up on that by just passing the no pre-existing conditions ban and kids being able to be covered under their parents' policies. All without the hubbub and in a bill anyone could read before voting on it.

Obamacare was never about health care.
 
Yes, I don't agree 100% with most of their positions, and probably almost half of the country is on the fence. Looking for fairness or a middle ground is where politicians succeed the best. The extremism responses are one upmanship in nature and emotionally based, not being reasonable. Neither side needs a large percentage of agreement to win seats, majorities or legislative votes.

Don't fool yourself Republicans want power and control, they'll just accept it under the guise of giving their corporate supporters more leverage.







I don't know what they'll do, but they better try and look less like Dems or suffer a similar fate at the polls next time.

Roger, all they got to remember to be successful, "It's the economy Stupid."
 
Obamacare was never about health care.

Yup...if it was about healthcare, the feds could have had a safety net in place for the 10% without up heaving the other 90% of the population to acquire it.
 
No, she's went a little bananas lately for some reason.
I actually like her and think she's, usually, pretty smart and reasonable, except around election time.

I think we've known each other in a good way since I came here grip.
This thread dovetails with the one I have on a Democratic "civil war".

I don't find it ironic that this thread almost exclusively contains Republican posters.
Posters still waging the 24/7/365 message war against the Democrats.

This is all well and good--their right fought for by our Veterans--I just want them to know I know who and what they are.
I plan on discussing "fixes" to my Democratic party with subsequent posts--"fixes" that our Republican friends certainly don't want to see.

I am very proud of my Democratic brand and believe we are far better on the issues than the GOP.
Thank you for starting this thread .
 
And yet only 10-15% were previously uninsured. We could have easily choked up on that by just passing the no pre-existing conditions ban and kids being able to be covered under their parents' policies. All without the hubbub and in a bill anyone could read before voting on it.


The Pros and Cons are far more extensive than that small consideration. I'm not saying it's all perfect or could've been, and there's only so much pie to go around. There's no way to reconcile both parties positions without some people getting hurt.
 
The Pros and Cons are far more extensive than that small consideration. I'm not saying it's all perfect or could've been, and there's only so much pie to go around. There's no way to reconcile both parties positions without some people getting hurt.

It's true, someone's oxen always gets gored. But in making big moves like this, good leaders ensure it will at least benefit the majority of the affected.
 
I think we've known each other in a good way since I came here grip.
This thread dovetails with the one I have on a Democratic "civil war".

I don't find it ironic that this thread almost exclusively contains Republican posters.
Posters still waging the 24/7/365 message war against the Democrats.

This is all well and good--their right fought for by our Veterans--I just want them to know I know who and what they are.
I plan on discussing "fixes" to my Democratic party with subsequent posts--"fixes" that our Republican friends certainly don't want to see.

I am very proud of my Democratic brand and believe we are far better on the issues than the GOP.
Thank you for starting this thread .


One thing that a pundit on the cable News brought up that was significant to me is that the sudden changes of party control are cycling much faster than in the past, when one side would hold dominance for decades at a time before the national mood shifted. It shows that people are confused about what's happening and how it's getting done.
 
I think you touched on every major talking point put out by the left wing media. Congratulations.

I agree that his first bullet is something of a talking point (That Democrats implemented many policies people believe haven't worked.) but two and three (their base generally doesn't vote during mid terms and that that's just how the American Political Pendulum swings) are more or less statements of historical fact.

When Democrats come out in droves in 2016 to elect the first woman president and vote party line for Congressional candidates, again shifting the balance of power in Congress, these will be the reasons it happens.

Mind you, I'm not looking forward to this eventuality, but if you don't see it coming you've been asleep for the past 25 years.
 
I think we've known each other in a good way since I came here grip.
This thread dovetails with the one I have on a Democratic "civil war".

I don't find it ironic that this thread almost exclusively contains Republican posters.
Posters still waging the 24/7/365 message war against the Democrats.

This is all well and good--their right fought for by our Veterans--I just want them to know I know who and what they are.
I plan on discussing "fixes" to my Democratic party with subsequent posts--"fixes" that our Republican friends certainly don't want to see.

I am very proud of my Democratic brand and believe we are far better on the issues than the GOP.
Thank you for starting this thread .

Well, with lots of help from the media, it's hard to argue Democrats are better on presenting issues. Your big challenge is actually demonstrating they provide results. In the big picture, for those who voted, it appeared the trend was towards a lack of faith they would.
 
I agree that his first bullet is something of a talking point (That Democrats implemented many policies people believe haven't worked.) but two and three (their base generally doesn't vote during mid terms and that that's just how the American Political Pendulum swings) are more or less statements of historical fact.

When Democrats come out in droves in 2016 to elect the first woman president and vote party line for Congressional candidates, again shifting the balance of power in Congress, these will be the reasons it happens.

Mind you, I'm not looking forward to this eventuality, but if you don't see it coming you've been asleep for the past 25 years.

Hopefully the landscape is a-changin' and we, as a nation, are finally coming to our senses. We'll see.
 
The leadership of the Democrat party are no less delusional than the President who claim to have "heard the people" and yet are proceeding as if they won big last Tuesday. And frankly, it's no less delusional than some on the right who claim their Presidential candidates aren't extreme enough - I haven't seen any conservative say they voted liberal because the conservative choice wasn't extreme right enough. Usually, what I hear, it's that the conservative candidate was too much up in the personal lifestyle and personal conduct of the electorate and not concerned enough with the economic wellbeing of the country and with getting government back to the base principles for which it was created.

What should be clear, at least to Republicans, is that a lot of what is usually referred to as "moderates" in their Senate candidate ranks got elected or came surprisingly close. Virginia and New Hampshire weren't lost because the conservative candidate wasn't extreme enough - they were close and almost upsets because the conservative candidate was a social moderate. I hope enough conservatives and Republicans learned that lesson and carry it into the future.
 
Big review set by Democrats after election losses




The Democrats were handed such big losses, because they've pushed the liberal agenda too hard. There weren't enough voters to counter the older and middle aged conservatives, who are afraid of the immigration issue, acceptance of LGBT community, social programs, legalization of marijuana, taxes and poor economic performance. Too much change, too soon got a lot of the older vote out, meaning the Dems need to slow their roll and find some middle ground. Obama's unpopularity and lack of response, especially on the recent News coverage of ISIS and Ebola hasn't helped. The Dems risk having no majorities or Presidency in 2016, if they don't learn to compromise on how hard they go left.. looking to pick up the swing vote from the middle.

Both parties don't seem to realize that a majority of people are split or in the middle of many political issues, not to the extremes.



That's a very valid assessment.

I would add some aspects, that one, the Democrat "base" was not as large as they believed it to be in the first place. It was widely acknowledged at his victory that Obama had won by attracting 'new' voters, largely blacks and youth. They disappeared last week, leaving what I suspect was the core.

Also, i suggest he has alienated those 'new' voters who won't likely be back easily or soon
 
Hopefully the landscape is a-changin' and we, as a nation, are finally coming to our senses. We'll see.

I look to reality TV as a barometer of national common sense.

The more outrageous it gets the further away we are, as a people, from behaving rationally.

When folks are walking the high wire between skyscrapers without a safety net or a harness and a guy is allowing himself to be "swallowed alive by a giant snake, after covering himself in pig’s blood while wearing a custom-built suit", I know we're a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way off.

At least Honey Boo Boo is gone... maybe that's a sign?
 
I wouldn't say that necessarily,

1) It's that they implemented many policies people believe haven't worked. can't blame them for that.

2) Their base generally doesn't vote during mid terms

3) thats just how the American Political Pendulum swings.

I wouldn't say with the gridlock in congress that the Liberal Agenda has been pushed very hard, America is still the same old Fast Food consuming, gas guzzling, corporate oligarchy it's always been.

There's alot of self congratulatory triumphalism among conservatives at the moment but I would remind them this now means they actually have to... you know... govern and it wasn't too long ago they were the ones being kicked out of congress on their ass. It will one day go the other way again.

My advice is stop congratulating yourselves and start getting down to work, if you've got the chops to run this country better than the democrats, you better start quick.



The guy on the losing end in an unquestionably historic defeat is giving advice to the victors.

That, I suggest, is what's wrong with the Democratic party, they need to stop being better than everyone else.
 
One thing that a pundit on the cable News brought up that was significant to me is that the sudden changes of party control are cycling much faster than in the past, when one side would hold dominance for decades at a time before the national mood shifted. It shows that people are confused about what's happening and how it's getting done.
This may be true of the last two changes, in 2006 and 2014, but GOPs are now firmly in control of state apparatus--the key to a decades-long hold on power.

With the dynamics of the way the House was remapped in 1990 and 2010;
With the poor turnout of the DEM base in 1990, 1994, 2010 and 2014--Dems have a critical problem with a big tent that has offsetting values;

GOP strategists are actually doing the Dems a huge favor on the National level helping them "fix" themselves since Dems haven't a clue;
Just as Dems gloatingly did in 2012 for Republicans .
 
Well, with lots of help from the media, it's hard to argue Democrats are better on presenting issues.
When you bring up the media, you discount just how impressive FOX and right-wing radio have been in helping the GOP.
I don't--I watch such FOX programs as Bret Baier and now the Kelly file on a regular basis.
The liberal media you speak of has cowardly retreated from their brand and mainstreamers are acting butthurt over the way Obama has treated them.
Your big challenge is actually demonstrating they provide results.
In the big picture, for those who voted, it appeared the trend was towards a lack of faith they would.
The economic results are plainly obvious to everyone--Dems stupidly ran from them due to a lack of intelligent National Leadership running the campaign.
As for messaging, Dems couldn't even use Romney's positive comments on the latest 3.5% GDP to their advantage.
While FOX was actually able to convince their viewers that lower gas prices are a bad thing to America.

The GOP and their posters won the messaging war this time around and it hasn't let up one iota--just being honest from my POV .
 
Yes, I don't agree 100% with most of their positions, and probably almost half of the country is on the fence. Looking for fairness or a middle ground is where politicians succeed the best. The extremism responses are one upmanship in nature and emotionally based, not being reasonable. Neither side needs a large percentage of agreement to win seats, majorities or legislative votes.

Don't fool yourself Republicans want power and control, they'll just accept it under the guise of giving their corporate supporters more leverage. .

All politicians want power. I don't have any delusions about that. I actually don't oppose corporations so it doesn't bother me that the Republicans get support from them. Democrats do too.

In some issues there is no middle ground, sadly. SSM is one. Abortion is another. So is welfare. So are tax incentives. So are unions and right to work. And so on. Those seem to bring out the most divisive of opinions.
 
Come on, we know that they'll do the same thing the Republicans did when faced with the same situation, instead of rationally evaluating their platform, they're going to double down on the stupid, just like the Republicans did.
 
Come on, we know that they'll do the same thing the Republicans did when faced with the same situation, instead of rationally evaluating their platform, they're going to double down on the stupid, just like the Republicans did.

The Republicans ran FAR better candidates in the 2014 midterms than they had in previous elections. They didn't double down, and instead pushed back on the Tea Party influence and supported winnable candidates.
 
When you bring up the media, you discount just how impressive FOX and right-wing radio have been in helping the GOP.
I don't--I watch such FOX programs as Bret Baier and now the Kelly file on a regular basis.
The liberal media you speak of has cowardly retreated from their brand and mainstreamers are acting butthurt over the way Obama has treated them.

The economic results are plainly obvious to everyone--Dems stupidly ran from them due to a lack of intelligent National Leadership running the campaign.
As for messaging, Dems couldn't even use Romney's positive comments on the latest 3.5% GDP to their advantage.
While FOX was actually able to convince their viewers that lower gas prices are a bad thing to America.

The GOP and their posters won the messaging war this time around and it hasn't let up one iota--just being honest from my POV .

You know NIMBY, the Fox thing the left clings to is rather silly. The highest rated program on FOX only reaches 2.5 million viewers. What fraction of the "right" does that represent? As to talk radio, there is certainly a slight advantage to shows on the right, but it's not nearly what is suggested. NPR, a decidedly left radio programing broadcast has ratings approaching 30 million per week.

Depending on the day, NBC Evening News itself reaches at minimum 8 million viewers, 4 times the audience of Fox News most popular program, The O'Reily Factor.

To the other points, you know very well Fox didn't try to convince viewers lower gas prices were bad. From what I discovered, they merely pointed out that some of the new oil extraction methods require crude to be at higher levels in order for the process to be economically viable. If domestic production is a goal, lower gas prices can impact that effort. That's a long way from the meme I've been reading from the left.

Perceived victory does bring out the cheerleaders, as they have from your side of the field in previous election cycles. The team only has so long, and as the old guard on the right is learning, they aren't going to be given much leeway to maintain the status quo.
 
The Republicans ran FAR better candidates in the 2014 midterms than they had in previous elections. They didn't double down, and instead pushed back on the Tea Party influence and supported winnable candidates.

I'm not talking 2014, I'm talking the last time they got their asses handed to them, they made a big deal about "re-evaluating" their platform and instead of making moves to appeal to a wider audience, they doubled down on their idiocy to appeal more firmly to their core. The Democrats will do the same.
 
All politicians want power. I don't have any delusions about that. I actually don't oppose corporations so it doesn't bother me that the Republicans get support from them. Democrats do too.

In some issues there is no middle ground, sadly. SSM is one. Abortion is another. So is welfare. So are tax incentives. So are unions and right to work. And so on. Those seem to bring out the most divisive of opinions.

Yeah, this idea that Democrats are "anti corporation" and Republicans are "pro corporation" is really just rhetoric. A way to divvy up the population into two rival sports teams. (along with some of the wedge issues you mention) In reality, both parties are two sides of the same coin, politicians of all sorts are basically purchased by big business interests, because those are the people with the clout and the money to actually fund their re-election. Your vote doesn't buy you squat in terms of actually getting an elected representative to listen to your concerns, nor does your $50 donation to their election campaign. $50 gets you on a mailing list that serves only to repeatedly ask you for more money.

$5 million to the "independent" SuperPAC supporting-but-pretending-not-to a candidate, on the other hand, buys a CEO a sit-down with said representative to hash out details on what is really important to that business. Coincidentally, those are the things that actually get done. Because that business gave $5 million to both parties.
 
That's a very valid assessment.

I would add some aspects, that one, the Democrat "base" was not as large as they believed it to be in the first place. It was widely acknowledged at his victory that Obama had won by attracting 'new' voters, largely blacks and youth. They disappeared last week, leaving what I suspect was the core.

Also, i suggest he has alienated those 'new' voters who won't likely be back easily or soon

Obama created a large new (temporary) base of minorities, youths and independents or moderates. I suspect he lost more of the moderates and didn't excite the core to get out, especially minorities. I assume the Dem base has always been smaller but more active during elections. Too much of the Midwest and South are still primarily staunch conservative.




This may be true of the last two changes, in 2006 and 2014, but GOPs are now firmly in control of state apparatus--the key to a decades-long hold on power.

With the dynamics of the way the House was remapped in 1990 and 2010;
With the poor turnout of the DEM base in 1990, 1994, 2010 and 2014--Dems have a critical problem with a big tent that has offsetting values;

GOP strategists are actually doing the Dems a huge favor on the National level helping them "fix" themselves since Dems haven't a clue;
Just as Dems gloatingly did in 2012 for Republicans .

The GOP is becoming too fractured with Libertarian right, rino, far right, neocons, paleocons, fiscal cons etc. They're fighting each other almost as much as the left, because, frankly, they just like to argue.

It's true though that GOP strategists are basically letting the Dems know where they went wrong. They're gloating so much that they can't keep it to themselves, dumb move.

Certain issues like SSM, could be fixed in the short run by making all marriages a legal civil union, and allowing church ceremonies to be included but not forced. A federal law to make medical marijuana legal for physicians to prescribe, partially settling the issue, until states can individually decide whether recreational or small possession amounts are legal. There are a host of solutions to meet halfway, until further details can be hammered out.
 
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