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Thread: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'm not talking 2014, I'm talking the last time they got their asses handed to them, they made a big deal about "re-evaluating" their platform and instead of making moves to appeal to a wider audience, they doubled down on their idiocy to appeal more firmly to their core. The Democrats will do the same.
    They lost in 2006, 2008 and 2012. What big changes did they make to their platform after those losses?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Wasserman Schultz said in a video announcing the project. "We know we're right on the issues. The American people believe in the causes we're fighting for.

    That assumption right there may be the problem.
    Yeah, not much hope for sufficient introspection when the presumption going in is "We're not the problem."
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah, this idea that Democrats are "anti corporation" and Republicans are "pro corporation" is really just rhetoric. A way to divvy up the population into two rival sports teams. (along with some of the wedge issues you mention) In reality, both parties are two sides of the same coin, politicians of all sorts are basically purchased by big business interests, because those are the people with the clout and the money to actually fund their re-election. Your vote doesn't buy you squat in terms of actually getting an elected representative to listen to your concerns, nor does your $50 donation to their election campaign. $50 gets you on a mailing list that serves only to repeatedly ask you for more money.

    $5 million to the "independent" SuperPAC supporting-but-pretending-not-to a candidate, on the other hand, buys a CEO a sit-down with said representative to hash out details on what is really important to that business. Coincidentally, those are the things that actually get done. Because that business gave $5 million to both parties.
    Agree 100% with your post.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    There weren't enough voters to counter the older and middle aged conservatives, who are afraid of the immigration issue, acceptance of LGBT community, social programs, legalization of marijuana...
    I agree with the quoted statement. It is irrational fear from (mostly) ignorant people that is holding our country back from making the changes that are needed. Most those people do change their positions over time, just too slowly. For example most of them are not overtly racist, don't support segregation, don't want to jail gays, want at least some environmental regulation, want to keep medicare and social security, don't want to push women back into the kitchen etc. In other words, the positions of today's conservative-centrist are the positions of yesterday's liberal. The problem is that their slowness to recognize the rights of marginalized people and to address pressing problems causes a lot of harm to others. (ie. harassed gays, jailed pot smokers, people sickened from living in toxic environments)
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 11-10-14 at 03:33 PM.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    When you bring up the media, you discount just how impressive FOX and right-wing radio have been in helping the GOP.
    I don't--I watch such FOX programs as Bret Baier and now the Kelly file on a regular basis.
    The liberal media you speak of has cowardly retreated from their brand and mainstreamers are acting butthurt over the way Obama has treated them.

    The economic results are plainly obvious to everyone--Dems stupidly ran from them due to a lack of intelligent National Leadership running the campaign.
    As for messaging, Dems couldn't even use Romney's positive comments on the latest 3.5% GDP to their advantage.
    While FOX was actually able to convince their viewers that lower gas prices are a bad thing to America.

    The GOP and their posters won the messaging war this time around and it hasn't let up one iota--just being honest from my POV .
    I think part of the Dems inability to capitalize on good economic news is that in bad times they actively make business owners the enemy. They pulled in a large segment of the OWS faithful into the party when the economy looked bad and the Dems thought they could make some political gains playing to the anti-capitalist movement, but now that the economy has shown some signs of life they are at odds with the OWS base by cheering the good news. I mean, the messaging is a non-starter for OWS when the chief sign of recovery used most often is monetary gains on Wall Street.

    This is similar to the trouble the Republicans have with the Tea Party movement. You can't court the Tea Party and then expect them to remain calm when you start talking about big government programs as solutions to the problems of the day. The Republicans have it a bit easier, though, since their hypocrisy is entirely avoidable while the Democrats can't avoid being hypocrites in cheering an economic system they are supposed to be against.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    All politicians want power. I don't have any delusions about that. I actually don't oppose corporations so it doesn't bother me that the Republicans get support from them. Democrats do too.

    In some issues there is no middle ground, sadly. SSM is one. Abortion is another. So is welfare. So are tax incentives. So are unions and right to work. And so on. Those seem to bring out the most divisive of opinions.
    I don't oppose corporations and think some of them are almost indispensable, but the amount of consolidation of larger and larger, industry monopolizing behemoths (too big to fail) are screwing everyone.

    All those issues have middle ground, with a little imagination and compromise. Abortion is settled, it's called the Roe vs Wade decision. SSM is easily solved by making all marriages a legal civil union and the church scene purely ceremonial. Welfare is a necessary evil, unless corporations want to spread some of their profits around in the form of new jobs, higher wages, more benefits, etc. Lets face it, the corporations have all the excess money, not the poor slobs that make up the lower 90%. Taxes should be cut across the board, with gov waste, fraud and spending being reduced. Unions in their current form aren't the same institutions they started out as, helping workers against unfair business practices. The divisiveness isn't a bad thing, until it becomes intractable.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't oppose corporations and think some of them are almost indispensable, but the amount of consolidation of larger and larger, industry monopolizing behemoths (too big to fail) are screwing everyone.

    All those issues have middle ground, with a little imagination and compromise. Abortion is settled, it's called the Roe vs Wade decision. SSM is easily solved by making all marriages a legal civil union and the church scene purely ceremonial. Welfare is a necessary evil, unless corporations want to spread some of their profits around in the form of new jobs, higher wages, more benefits, etc. Lets face it, the corporations have all the excess money, not the poor slobs that make up the lower 90%. Taxes should be cut across the board, with gov waste, fraud and spending being reduced. Unions in their current form aren't the same institutions they started out as, helping workers against unfair business practices. The divisiveness isn't a bad thing, until it becomes intractable.
    Hmmm.....sorry, but I don't believe welfare is the responsibility of the corporations in this country.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    They lost in 2006, 2008 and 2012. What big changes did they make to their platform after those losses?
    The GOP hasn't really altered much, but they do seem to have toned it down a notch. It's more "let's stop fighting so hard on a few battles we're clearly losing."

    And also "HEY, ****BIRDS, STOP TALKING ABOUT RAPE BECAUSE OUR OPINIONS ON RAPE ARE HORRIFYING AND THE PUBLIC ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS US EVERY TIME WE BRING IT UP"
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Hmmm.....sorry, but I don't believe welfare is the responsibility of the corporations in this country.
    So is it my responsibility, then, to subsidize WalMart's ****ty pay by funding TANF and SNAP for all their employees? Because that's the result. If working 70 hours a week isn't enough to feed and clothe yourself, what the hell can be done other than having taxpayers pick up the tab?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I agree with the quoted statement. It is irrational fear from (mostly) ignorant people that is holding our country back from making the changes that are needed. Most those people do change their positions over time, just too slowly. For example most of them are not overtly racist, don't support segregation, don't want to jail gays, want at least some environmental regulation, want to keep medicare and social security, don't want to push women back into the kitchen etc. In other words, the positions of today's conservative-centrist are the positions of yesterday's liberal. The problem is that their slowness to recognize the rights of marginalized people and to address pressing problems causes a lot of harm to others. (ie. harassed gays, jailed pot smokers, people sickened from living in toxic environments)
    You can't expect stubborn older people from a different era to change their values and ideas easily. They may give in on some of their more inflexible positions when reasoned with but not forced by coercion. My neighbor is a 70yr old southern conservative, very religious. She'll tell me how weird those gay pride parades are, but if I ask her do you want to deny them human dignity and rights, she sheepishly says, no. Some black teenagers will walk by and she'll say, those angry negros scare me. And I'll say should I go beat them up for you, and she hangs her head down and says, I'm sorry. She's not a bad person, just steeped with old habits and ways. And forget about Pot, she thinks that stuff is the devil's underwear.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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