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Thread: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    The guy on the losing end.
    Me?

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, with lots of help from the media, it's hard to argue Democrats are better on presenting issues.
    When you bring up the media, you discount just how impressive FOX and right-wing radio have been in helping the GOP.
    I don't--I watch such FOX programs as Bret Baier and now the Kelly file on a regular basis.
    The liberal media you speak of has cowardly retreated from their brand and mainstreamers are acting butthurt over the way Obama has treated them.
    Your big challenge is actually demonstrating they provide results.
    In the big picture, for those who voted, it appeared the trend was towards a lack of faith they would.
    The economic results are plainly obvious to everyone--Dems stupidly ran from them due to a lack of intelligent National Leadership running the campaign.
    As for messaging, Dems couldn't even use Romney's positive comments on the latest 3.5% GDP to their advantage.
    While FOX was actually able to convince their viewers that lower gas prices are a bad thing to America.

    The GOP and their posters won the messaging war this time around and it hasn't let up one iota--just being honest from my POV .
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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The dems fail to understand local and state issues, they're federally centered. They fail to recognize that the rural population still exists in number and have no desire for the urban values the dems champion.
    that is a good point.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Yes, I don't agree 100% with most of their positions, and probably almost half of the country is on the fence. Looking for fairness or a middle ground is where politicians succeed the best. The extremism responses are one upmanship in nature and emotionally based, not being reasonable. Neither side needs a large percentage of agreement to win seats, majorities or legislative votes.

    Don't fool yourself Republicans want power and control, they'll just accept it under the guise of giving their corporate supporters more leverage. .
    All politicians want power. I don't have any delusions about that. I actually don't oppose corporations so it doesn't bother me that the Republicans get support from them. Democrats do too.

    In some issues there is no middle ground, sadly. SSM is one. Abortion is another. So is welfare. So are tax incentives. So are unions and right to work. And so on. Those seem to bring out the most divisive of opinions.
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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Come on, we know that they'll do the same thing the Republicans did when faced with the same situation, instead of rationally evaluating their platform, they're going to double down on the stupid, just like the Republicans did.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Come on, we know that they'll do the same thing the Republicans did when faced with the same situation, instead of rationally evaluating their platform, they're going to double down on the stupid, just like the Republicans did.
    The Republicans ran FAR better candidates in the 2014 midterms than they had in previous elections. They didn't double down, and instead pushed back on the Tea Party influence and supported winnable candidates.
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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    When you bring up the media, you discount just how impressive FOX and right-wing radio have been in helping the GOP.
    I don't--I watch such FOX programs as Bret Baier and now the Kelly file on a regular basis.
    The liberal media you speak of has cowardly retreated from their brand and mainstreamers are acting butthurt over the way Obama has treated them.

    The economic results are plainly obvious to everyone--Dems stupidly ran from them due to a lack of intelligent National Leadership running the campaign.
    As for messaging, Dems couldn't even use Romney's positive comments on the latest 3.5% GDP to their advantage.
    While FOX was actually able to convince their viewers that lower gas prices are a bad thing to America.

    The GOP and their posters won the messaging war this time around and it hasn't let up one iota--just being honest from my POV .
    You know NIMBY, the Fox thing the left clings to is rather silly. The highest rated program on FOX only reaches 2.5 million viewers. What fraction of the "right" does that represent? As to talk radio, there is certainly a slight advantage to shows on the right, but it's not nearly what is suggested. NPR, a decidedly left radio programing broadcast has ratings approaching 30 million per week.

    Depending on the day, NBC Evening News itself reaches at minimum 8 million viewers, 4 times the audience of Fox News most popular program, The O'Reily Factor.

    To the other points, you know very well Fox didn't try to convince viewers lower gas prices were bad. From what I discovered, they merely pointed out that some of the new oil extraction methods require crude to be at higher levels in order for the process to be economically viable. If domestic production is a goal, lower gas prices can impact that effort. That's a long way from the meme I've been reading from the left.

    Perceived victory does bring out the cheerleaders, as they have from your side of the field in previous election cycles. The team only has so long, and as the old guard on the right is learning, they aren't going to be given much leeway to maintain the status quo.

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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The Republicans ran FAR better candidates in the 2014 midterms than they had in previous elections. They didn't double down, and instead pushed back on the Tea Party influence and supported winnable candidates.
    I'm not talking 2014, I'm talking the last time they got their asses handed to them, they made a big deal about "re-evaluating" their platform and instead of making moves to appeal to a wider audience, they doubled down on their idiocy to appeal more firmly to their core. The Democrats will do the same.
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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    All politicians want power. I don't have any delusions about that. I actually don't oppose corporations so it doesn't bother me that the Republicans get support from them. Democrats do too.

    In some issues there is no middle ground, sadly. SSM is one. Abortion is another. So is welfare. So are tax incentives. So are unions and right to work. And so on. Those seem to bring out the most divisive of opinions.
    Yeah, this idea that Democrats are "anti corporation" and Republicans are "pro corporation" is really just rhetoric. A way to divvy up the population into two rival sports teams. (along with some of the wedge issues you mention) In reality, both parties are two sides of the same coin, politicians of all sorts are basically purchased by big business interests, because those are the people with the clout and the money to actually fund their re-election. Your vote doesn't buy you squat in terms of actually getting an elected representative to listen to your concerns, nor does your $50 donation to their election campaign. $50 gets you on a mailing list that serves only to repeatedly ask you for more money.

    $5 million to the "independent" SuperPAC supporting-but-pretending-not-to a candidate, on the other hand, buys a CEO a sit-down with said representative to hash out details on what is really important to that business. Coincidentally, those are the things that actually get done. Because that business gave $5 million to both parties.
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    Re: Big review set by Democrats after election losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    That's a very valid assessment.

    I would add some aspects, that one, the Democrat "base" was not as large as they believed it to be in the first place. It was widely acknowledged at his victory that Obama had won by attracting 'new' voters, largely blacks and youth. They disappeared last week, leaving what I suspect was the core.

    Also, i suggest he has alienated those 'new' voters who won't likely be back easily or soon
    Obama created a large new (temporary) base of minorities, youths and independents or moderates. I suspect he lost more of the moderates and didn't excite the core to get out, especially minorities. I assume the Dem base has always been smaller but more active during elections. Too much of the Midwest and South are still primarily staunch conservative.




    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    This may be true of the last two changes, in 2006 and 2014, but GOPs are now firmly in control of state apparatus--the key to a decades-long hold on power.

    With the dynamics of the way the House was remapped in 1990 and 2010;
    With the poor turnout of the DEM base in 1990, 1994, 2010 and 2014--Dems have a critical problem with a big tent that has offsetting values;

    GOP strategists are actually doing the Dems a huge favor on the National level helping them "fix" themselves since Dems haven't a clue;
    Just as Dems gloatingly did in 2012 for Republicans .
    The GOP is becoming too fractured with Libertarian right, rino, far right, neocons, paleocons, fiscal cons etc. They're fighting each other almost as much as the left, because, frankly, they just like to argue.

    It's true though that GOP strategists are basically letting the Dems know where they went wrong. They're gloating so much that they can't keep it to themselves, dumb move.

    Certain issues like SSM, could be fixed in the short run by making all marriages a legal civil union, and allowing church ceremonies to be included but not forced. A federal law to make medical marijuana legal for physicians to prescribe, partially settling the issue, until states can individually decide whether recreational or small possession amounts are legal. There are a host of solutions to meet halfway, until further details can be hammered out.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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