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Thread: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    There is nothing you said I disagree with. My only issue, is that the government will be regulating the net, the same way they do air waves and TV.
    That's not even remotely correct.

    Government regulation of the spectrum is quite extensive. It determines who can use what portions of the spectrum in what geographic areas. It ensures that signals overlap. It required TV broadcasters to ditch analog signals and switch to digital. It censors a great deal of the airwaves.

    All that net neutrality requires is that ISP's treat all traffic equally. It doesn't involve government divvying up bandwidth, or censoring language, or determining which ISP's can operate in which regions.


    What will be the impact of the government having a say in the utility.
    It will help prevent a specific anti-competitive abuse by certain monopolistic ISP's / content providers. That's pretty much it.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    They won't be the same.

    They won't "control" it in the way that you seem to be implying.
    lol. That one is is just way out there.
    Of course they will. The government will use taxes, fees and regulations to create the outcome they want all in the name of fairness as they see it.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    How much innovation is going on in the public utilities? Doesn't seem like much.
    Which utilities? What innovations have you been researching?


    Lots of innovation continues on the Internet. Turning the Internet into a public utility is going to stifle the innovation?
    Treating telephone lines like public utilities did not stop innovations in mobile phones. Treating energy as a utility hasn't stopped research into sustainable energy.

    Net neutrality also won't stop anyone from developing new technologies that are delivered via the Internet. In fact, it should help it quite a bit, since it won't allow ISP's to slow down or block providers of new services that might compete with something the ISP offers.

    Or, to put it another way: net neutrality ensures that the Internet operates the same way it did until around 2004. I'd say that environment allowed quite a bit of innovation to flourish.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post

    It will help prevent a specific anti-competitive abuse by certain monopolistic ISP's / content providers. That's pretty much it.
    Wrong. It allows those content providers to monopolize the internet by sucking up bandwidth with their 1,000 cache servers that will constantly jump the line ahead of other sites who servers are further away.

    Regardless, if Obama is getting involved at this point in the game, it is probably because the intelligence community sees a downside to their 24/7 spying on people if sites get throttled.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And that magically makes it more expensive to dig up thousands of miles of dirt to lay cables?

    Unless your less-expensive alternative is "not have an internet."
    I think there's some confusion as to what the internet actually is. Your ISP isn't the internet. The internet is a network, or rather a network of networks.

    To understand this you need to understand how the internet was created. In 1969 DARPA funded ARPANET. The idea was to create a robust decentralized network made up of interconnected small computers called Interface Message Processors (Routers). Instead of every computer being physically connected to every other computer, the routers used TCP/IP and packet switching to route packets from one router to another until they reached their destination. At this point the internet was very small, consisting of UCLA, Stanford, UCSB, and University of Utah.

    Then in 1985, the National Science Foundation began sponsoring multiple coordinated projects to expand this concept forming NSFNET. In 1986 the internet backbone was composed of a number of 56kps links. These quickly became saturated, and the NSF funded 13 nodes to be interconnected with T1 lines. Then in 1991 this was expanded to 16 nodes with T3 interconnects forming ANSNet. They also began to look into joint networks involving both for profit ISPs and non profit research institutions.

    They settled on a simple concept: settlement-free interconnection. This forms the backbone of the internet today. On the backbone of the internet, everyone routes everyone else's traffic regardless of what it is and without any packet based fees. If my network gets a packet addressed to somewhere else, then I send it through my network to its destination. I don't slow it down, or charge an additional fee. THAT is what makes the internet so powerful.

    ISPs like Comcast connect you to the "Net Neutral" backbone of the internet. Your traffic goes You -> ISP -> Tier 2 Network -> Tier 1 Network -> Tier 2 Network -> ISP -> Destination.

    They're kind of like your power distribution company. Power distribution companies (by in large) don't produce electricity, they just deliver it to your house. As such, the power companies aren't allowed to impose regulations on what you do with that power. For example, a power company isn't allowed to produce their own line of refrigerators and then charge you extra for or entirely block power to any other brand of refrigerator.

    Being against net neutrality is very much like being for the power company being allowed to decide which type of light bulbs you use or refrigerator you own. You're paying for the power coming into your house. Why would anyone support power companies deciding what you do with it?

    The same things goes for Net Neutrality. ISP's sell you a connection to the internet. You pay for that bandwidth. What you do with it is your business, not theirs. Comcast doesn't get to decide which search engine you use, what sites you shop on, and where you get your news. Without net neutrality ISPs can do things like block or slow down anything they find objectionable. Someone writes a detailed complaint about the iSP? Well maybe you don't get to see that.

    Is that really what you want?

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Treating telephone lines like public utilities did not stop innovations in mobile phones. Treating energy as a utility hasn't stopped research into sustainable energy.
    Ahem...that research was done by the government.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-11-14 at 12:20 PM.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Wrong. It allows those content providers to monopolize the internet by sucking up bandwidth with their 1,000 cache servers that will constantly jump the line ahead of other sites who servers are further away.
    So it's better that Verizon can push its own VOIP and streaming video services ahead of Netflix and Vonage, to make competing products look inferior?

    Net neutrality cannot, and is not designed to, overcome the limitations of physics. It is designed to ensure that ISPs act like ISPs, rather than abuse their position to push their own services on their customers.


    Regardless, if Obama is getting involved at this point in the game, it is probably because the intelligence community sees a downside to their 24/7 spying on people if sites get throttled.
    Ah yes, the conspiracy theory. Nice.

    Actually, Obama's actions suggest the opposite. The NSA relies on quite a bit of goodwill from the ISPs, and the ISPs are against NN. NN also has nothing to do with the tapping / surveillance efforts by the NSA. Go figure.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by dogtowner View Post
    What he really said was to reclassify the internet as a public utility. Or seize control of it.
    I find it odd that he was perfectly good with giving away authority but now wants it.
    If you think this is a boon you really need to think a little harder.
    I'm having to think a little harder to understand your premise.

    "Seize control of it" ..."giving away authority"..What the hell are you talking about.


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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Greater Freedom through Greater restrictive regulation. Typical Leftist BS.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Greater Freedom through Greater restrictive regulation. Typical Leftist BS.
    You do understand that the government isn't really engaging in restrictive regulation, rather they are protecting consumers from companies that want to slow down your online services in order to get more money from you?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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