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Thread: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

  1. #121
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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nitpicking. Tell me you think this is why Comcast was making Netflix unwatchable.

    Not to mention you're still wrong. If the different routing really was causing network problems, net neutrality allows for throttling in that situation. Next goalpost.
    It's not moving goalposts, you just don't understand the actual technical issues at play. There are a legion of differences between, in your example, Youtube and NetFlix.

    Not the least of the differences is the enormous amount of bandwidth consumed by NetFlix as the single greatest user of internet bandwidth in the world. In a limited, over-leased, QoS driven system it makes perfect sense to throttle NetFlix in order to give other content access to the circuits.

    The alternative is to upgrade the entire system in order to accommodate NetFlix but then who should be charged for that other than NetFlix? Should the ISP charge all of its customers for the added infrastructure to accommodate NetFlix customers even if all of the ISP customers aren't NetFlix subscribers? By throttling NetFlix or charging a premium it passes the cost of the increased capacity to NetFlix and NetFlix customers who are really the people who should be paying for it.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    For those who are still not embracing the concept of Net Neutrality - this writeup covers it pretty darned well

    Dear Senator Ted Cruz, I'm going to explain to you how Net Neutrality ACTUALLY works - The Oatmeal


    If you don't want your ISP deciding you can access their sites faster than other sites.... net neutrality is key.

    If you want big business to control how you access sites, then be against net neutrality.

    Up until recently, the internet was set up with net neutrality. Worked pretty good. Let's keep it.
    Some people just have this blind idea that anything the government does is automatically bad. They think that government can only harm freedom, never enhance it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #123
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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    For those who are still not embracing the concept of Net Neutrality - this writeup covers it pretty darned well

    Dear Senator Ted Cruz, I'm going to explain to you how Net Neutrality ACTUALLY works - The Oatmeal


    If you don't want your ISP deciding you can access their sites faster than other sites.... net neutrality is key.

    If you want big business to control how you access sites, then be against net neutrality.

    Up until recently, the internet was set up with net neutrality. Worked pretty good. Let's keep it.
    Dear Oatmeal, stop making people dumber with your uneducated take on how the internet functions.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's not moving goalposts, you just don't understand the actual technical issues at play. There are a legion of differences between, in your example, Youtube and NetFlix.

    Not the least of the differences is the enormous amount of bandwidth consumed by NetFlix as the single greatest user of internet bandwidth in the world. In a limited, over-leased, QoS driven system it makes perfect sense to throttle NetFlix in order to give other content access to the circuits.

    The alternative is to upgrade the entire system in order to accommodate NetFlix but then who should be charged for that other than NetFlix? Should the ISP charge all of its customers for the added infrastructure to accommodate NetFlix customers even if all of the ISP customers aren't NetFlix subscribers? By throttling NetFlix or charging a premium it passes the cost of the increased capacity to NetFlix and NetFlix customers who are really the people who should be paying for it.
    Netflix consumes a lot of bandwidth, which is why they pay a lot of money for it. They're being charged for their extra consumption already.

    And you're operating under this weird idea that Netflix only had its traffic throttled during times when network capacity was being saturated.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Dear Oatmeal, stop making people dumber with your uneducated take on how the internet functions.
    They know how the internet works. You just don't know how net neutrality works. If Netflix traffic were actually causing capacity issues for Comcast, Comcast can throttle that traffic under net neutrality. Next complaint please.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Some people just have this blind idea that anything the government does is automatically bad. They think that government can only harm freedom, never enhance it.
    In the same way that some people have a blind idea that everything a corporation does is bad.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The alternative is to upgrade the entire system in order to accommodate NetFlix but then who should be charged for that other than NetFlix? Should the ISP charge all of its customers for the added infrastructure to accommodate NetFlix customers even if all of the ISP customers aren't NetFlix subscribers? By throttling NetFlix or charging a premium it passes the cost of the increased capacity to NetFlix and NetFlix customers who are really the people who should be paying for it.
    How very confusing. This seems like the rationale behind the cadillac tax in Obamacare that's popularly talked about right now, where instead of taxing plan holders they instead taxed insurance companies to say "See, we're being good and not taxing you" even though it only makes sense that the insurance company was going to hike their prices on everyone. So ISPs don't want to pay to upgrade their bandwidth to provide what they've been selling people, and they know their customers will get upset if they continue to hike their already high bills even higher (even though we'll all pay, because those ****ers have quasi-monopolies), so instead they'll just extort the company on the other end (naturally making that company pass it forward to their consumers).

    This is all confusing, because Ted Cruz told us all that Net Neutrality was Obamacare of the internet...yet it sure sounds like the current scheme by the Telecoms is right in line with how said bill got passed.

    Ahh, the glory of political blowhards.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    No one I'm seeing on here has suggested that across the board throttling, or even throttling in SPECIFIC instances of network congestion, should be disallowed or IS disallowed under net neutrality provisions.

    It's perfectly reasonable to throttle Netflix traffic at specific points where there is a clear and verifiable network congestion issue. That issue does not exist 100% of the time, nor did those specific instances magically vanish after Netflix started to shell out extra money to an ISP and magically saw their throttling go away.

    If their network could handle it the day AFTER they extorted money out of Netflix then it could've handled it the day BEFORE as well. It's not likey they got paid and then immedietely significantly more infastructure got laid down.

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, it isn't the same. Unless Youtube and NetFlix flow through the same trunk and follow the same path, and have the same burst characteristics then it isn't the same internet footprint. Just because the net Neutrality defenders need to simplify how the internet works to support their argument doesn't mean the internet is simple.
    Yeah that argument is totally convincing. Its just a coincidence that netflix traffic speed massively increased after paying comcast huge sums of money?

    The corporate propaganda behind net neutrality is absolutely pathetic in how lame it is. "yeah we didn't throttle neflix's traffic, but we are strongly against rules that would prevent us from throttling netflix's traffic, even though we would never throttle anyone's traffic. We simply feel its important to make sure its 100% legal to extort money out of our competitors, but we would never actually do it. Its also unwarranted government interference, unlike the government interference that gave us billions in subsidies and exclusive monopolies with local government."

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    Re: Obama Urges F.C.C. to Adopt Strict Rules on Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The government might over reach beyond requiring that telecoms treat all data neutrally, and begin to interfere with the free exchange of the internet.

    HOWEVER...

    The telecoms WILL over reach, as they've done so in the past and taken stances in the present to suggest they have continue to have a desire to do such.

    I'll take the chance with the government over the near certainty with the telecom psuedo-monopolies.
    I am stuck in the same mindset. Once the government has control, the lobbyist machine will start up (well, it already has).
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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