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CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq
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I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government," said Biden.
"I spent -- I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences.".....snip~
:doh
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The initial invasion destabilizing the region, debaathification of the public sector, establishing a government that ignored the Sunni population, failure of the Iraqi military to deal with its own problems.
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The region was never 'stable'. I have no idea why you would say that if you were at all familiar with the Middle East at the time.
It doesn't matter about Maliki or the government the Iraqi people chose. The troops had to remain there to sustain stability in the region, just as they have done elsewhere in the world. It also doesn't matter what local governments are elected or what their domestic policies might be. This is always beside the point wherever US troops are stationed.
Troops are there to maintain peace (this was especially necessary in a new democracy with a history of terrorism) and when Obama withdrew these troops, despite it being a 'stable' Iraq, we get what we see now. Claiming there was stability in the ME when Saddam was in power is ignoring everything we know about that period.
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Iraq was pretty stable in 2003 compared to now, same with Syria.
1.)You just said it wasnt stable....
2.)It really wasnt stable. Al-Qaeda was around, ISIS was being formed, other armed groups were still around.
The thing is, the troops didnt bring stability. They brought instability.
The thing is it didnt bring peace..
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That's funny.....all Military and Intel experts stated AQ was driven out of Iraq. Then AQ itself says it was driven out of Iraq and that it would return. You must have missed that back when the Invisible Sheik was just the Head of AQ in Iraq and gave his speech about it.
AQ says it's returning to old Iraq strongholds......| Last Updated: Jul. 22, 2012 - 09:47AM <<<<< !
The first online statement from the new leader of al-Qaida's affiliate in Iraq claims that the militant network is returning to the old strongholds from which it was driven by U.S. forces and their Sunni allies prior to the American withdrawal at the end of last year, and that it is preparing operations to free prisoners and assassinate court officials. The audio identifies the speaker as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who became head of the Islamic State of Iraq in 2010. It was posted late Saturday on a website regularly used by the militant movement to make statements. The statement comes as Sunni insurgents, now believed to be dominated by the ISI, step up attacks against Shiites, government officials and other targets, in what is seen as a bit to undercut the authority of Iraq's state and revive sectarian conflict in the wake of the pull-out of the last American forces in the country in December.
He urged tribal leaders to send their men to join al-Qaida as it returns to areas from which it withdrew— a reference to reverses the ISI suffered at the hands of U.S. forces and allied Sunni militias in 2007 and 2008. "On the occasion of the return of the (Islamic) State to the regions it evacuated, I urge you to send your sons to join the ranks of the mujahideen in defense of your religion and honor," he said. "The majority of the Sunnis in Iraq support al-Qaida and are waiting for its return."
AQ says it's returning to old Iraq strongholds | Military Times | militarytimes.com
Do you think we should believe all those military and intel experts, plus AQ and the Head of ISIS himself when they say AQ was driven out of Iraq?
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How much more assistance is being requested?
Overkill can endanger more American lives, and create resentment in the target nations, religions, and tribes.
Obama receives many recommendations for policies. Which Military or other leaders are suggesting 1500 advisors is not enough?
One aspect of Leadership is to decrease the amount of over-kill suggestions.
//
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All they did was change their name to "Islamic State in Iraq".. They never left Iraq. Islamic State of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You can find a list of all their big attacks in Iraq. Never left.
"Military experts"? Your lone expert is Bagdahdi claiming they will return to dominance.
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The Long War Journal reports there are 42 known jihadist training camps in Iraq and Syria. I think that points up the need for aircraft based farther north and west that could react very quickly. If a satellite or U-2 shows people at one of these camps, it will probably be several hours at least before the site can be attacked with cruise missiles or carrier aircraft. And by that time, there may well be no one there to bomb.
It seems reasonable that helicopters or STOL aircraft operating out of large, heavily defended forward bases would make life much more difficult for the jihadists than it's been made so far. The only place a situation like that now exists is in the area west and northwest of Baghdad, where attack helicopters based in or near the city can respond very fast. They have been doing some of that in coordination with Iraqi troops, and the jihadists have very little protection from them.
It seems reasonable that helicopters or STOL aircraft operating out of large, heavily defended forward bases would make life much more difficult for the jihadists than it's been made so far. The only place a situation like that now exists is in the area west and northwest of Baghdad, where attack helicopters based in or near the city can respond very fast. They have been doing some of that in coordination with Iraqi troops, and the jihadists have very little protection from them.
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No. ISIS is a splinter group, one that was seen as too extreme by AQ. But remember, Obama said AQ was on the run in the 2012 elections. So you tell me, which is it?
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Seems reasonable.
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You're right they are, and what they did is change their name and bring their fighters with them.
The problem with this is you and many people here are thinking I am analyzing this as a Obama and Republican issue. I am not. I am saying this (ISIS being created, and the extreme destabilization in the region) is the result of a combination of factors, not just one man...
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They were driven out of Iraq by the Sunni and us.....those who we stiffed at the end with BO walking away.
Yes they still made attacks in Iraq.....but then when AQ themselves point out they were driven out. Despite them saying they withdrew. Shows it for what it is.
Also in 2006.....Before AQ was driven out of Iraq. They caused the Shia uprising in which Al Sadr led the Shia and their Attacks and Assassinations.
Militant Group Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood of Baghdad, a top American general said today, allowing American troops involved in the “surge” to depart as planned.
He and other military commanders have maintained for months that the conditions for national reconciliation have been met. They argue that Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the homegrown Sunni extremist group that American intelligence agencies say is foreign-led, has been weakened. They cite in particular the rise of the American-supported citizen volunteers — 67,000 nationwide, according to military figures.
And though Sunni extremist groups could revive and “reinfest very quickly,” General Fil said, Iraq’s leaders should now have the peace they need to build a trusted, cross-sectarian government. But progress toward that, he said, has been “disappointing.”.....snip~
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/w...7895a8fea&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=0
Al-Qaeda making comeback in Iraq, officials say.....
Al-Qaeda is rebuilding in Iraq and has set up training camps for insurgents in the nation's western deserts as the extremist group seizes on regional instability and government security failures to regain strength, officials say.
During the war and its aftermath, U.S. forces, joined by allied Sunni groups and later by Iraqi counterterror forces, managed to beat back al-Qaeda's Iraqi branch.
The new growth of al-Qaeda in Iraq, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq, is not entirely unexpected. Last November, the top U.S. military official in Iraq, Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, predicted "turbulence" ahead for Iraq's security forces. But he doubted Iraq would return to the days of widespread fighting between Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents, including al-Qaeda, that brought the Islamic country to the brink of civil war.
Al-Qaeda making comeback in Iraq, officials say
6:26 p.m. EDT October 9, 2012
Note the terms routed, beat back.....New Growth.
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Capster78
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Its not enough to do anything. What is needed in Iraq is a permanent presence of international troops. An initial surge of probably 500k plus troops to stabilize the country and allow it to fight out its problems thru elections instead of thru war. Then once all parties realize that it is the preferred method of voicing grievences like the civilized nations in the west, we can leave. Of course this process will take a considerable amount of time. All one has to do is look at how long it took the US to go from a nation at war with itself to where we are today and you will see that this is a struggle that takes considerable time. We should not expect anything different when it comes to Iraq. I think it will take 40-50 years of peaceful political fighting to change the culture there into a civilized one.
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"Driven out" but still make large terrorist attacks? "Driven out" but still active in fighting the Iraqi government? Whaaattttt....
They were never driven out.
All of those links recognize they were never beat out of Iraq. One recognizes that it was beat out of Baghdad but not Iraq as a whole. . All of those links recognize that they were still in Iraq and regrouping forces and very much active.
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seems times have changed, I remember when the left was far more vocal about sending troops to Iraq. 
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:roll: New Growth says it all.
Information Warfare: Al Qaeda Discusses Losing Iraq.....
May 27, 2008:Â Al Qaeda web sites are making a lot of noise about "why we lost in Iraq." Western intelligence agencies are fascinated by the statistics being posted in several of these Arab language sites. Not the kind of stuff you read about in the Western media. According to al Qaeda, their collapse in Iraq was steep and catastrophic. According to their stats, in late 2006, al Qaeda was responsible for 60 percent of the terrorist attacks, and nearly all the ones that involved killing a lot of civilians. The rest of the violence was carried out by Iraqi Sunni Arab groups, who were trying in vain to scare the Americans out of the country.
Today, al Qaeda has been shattered, with most of its leadership and foot soldiers dead, captured or moved from Iraq. As a result, al Qaeda attacks have declined more than 90 percent. Worse, most of their Iraqi Sunni Arab allies have turned on them, Â or simply quit. This "betrayal" is handled carefully on the terrorist web sites, for it is seen as both shameful, and perhaps recoverable......snip~
Information Warfare: Al Qaeda Discusses Losing Iraq
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To Take on ISIS......5 Billion. That's what BO is asking for. We have had some state it will require 15-20k US Troops.
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seems times have changed, I remember when the left was far more vocal about sending troops to Iraq.
Yeah, probably about the same time that the right was really excited about the idea of doing it. Gee, you don't think the party of the President at the time has anything to do with it, do you?
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You claimed earlier that AQ left Iraq and "military experts" agreed with that opinion. However none of the "sources" you just provided backed that stance. Instead all it said was they were pushed out of Baghdad and were regrouping...
This source also just says many in AQ regrouped under a new leader and a new name in 2006...
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When did we back the Shia in Iraq under Bush Junior again? Uhm it was the Shia and aL Sadr who went after us in 2006. Now uhm how did we want that vote by the people to side with those who were killing us again?
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Damn him for listening to the electorate. I mean, what good is democracy if our elected representatives don't tell the people to "go f*ck themselves?"
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