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Thread: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    It was obviously tremendously dumb to leave Iraq, only the most pacifist of antiwar people could disagree. But the people that are to be blamed for it (aside from the people back home that made it allowable politically) are the Shia members of the Iraqi parliament. The US continued to try to negotiate through the early fall of 2011 to stay in Iraq.

    I know, I was there, reading the daily reports from the embassy.

    And as far as whether or not Iraq itself was a threat...that's beside the point.
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    So you assert. But you don't have the vaguest idea what they knew, or didn't know. After the 9/11 attacks and the anthrax mailings soon afterwards, I think there was good reason to believe Hussein's regime was a threat to the United States. It's easy to make glib assertions with the benefit of hindsight. Not nearly so easy, when you're responsible for protecting 300-plus million people from foreign threats, and an unknown foreign enemy has just made the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, to dismiss the most likely suspect.

    Iraq was known to have sponsored and used all sorts of terrorist groups, including Islamist ones. And it had never truly ended its war against the United States. By 9/11, there had been hundreds of incidents during the previous decade in which Iraq had threatened or even openly attacked U.S. and British aircraft patrolling there. Iraq had also more than once feinted further attacks on Kuwait. There had also been enough evidence it was helping Sudan make chemical and/or biological weapons, some of which might have fallen into the hands of Al Qaeda, to prompt President Clinton to order a cruise missile attack on a factory near Khartoum.



    Any revision is yours. Your account of the 2002-2003 UNMOVIC and IAEA inspections conveniently leaves out crucial facts. It is true that hundreds of inspections were carried out during about four months. But it was clear Iraq was playing a game to deceive the inspectors, only showing them enough to pretend to be cooperating. On January 27 and February 14, 2003, they reported to the UN Security Council that although Iraq's cooperation had improved somewhat, it was still unsatisfactory. And on March 7, Hans Blix told the Security Council that Iraq had not complied with the obligations to disarm that UN resolutions imposed on it.
    They still did not kick the inspectors out in 1998, as you asserted they did.

    And Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on the WTC. Everyone knew that they had nothing to do with the attack of 2011. The attack was simply a convenient excuse to carry out a war that the PNAC had wanted to start for years.
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    It wasn't an excuse, so much as it was the best option in an effort to actually take seriously the reconstruction and reshaping on the Middle East. Something that wasn't taken seriously before 9/11, was improperly executed in 2003, and then not taken seriously again after the surge.

    There could've been major progress made, but the American public doesn't have the stomach for it. More's the pity, but a short attention span is to be expected in this era of tweets and soundbites,
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeburte View Post
    Finally an admission that conservatives are reaching deeply into my pocket to make me pay for someone else's benefit (Iraqi "freedom"). That's big government socialism. I believe in self reliance. If the Iraqis and Syrians don't like their terrorist dictator regimes, we should give them only consultative services, training and maybe LOAN them money and supplies with INTEREST so they can try to free themselves and we can profit off of it. Democrats and Republicans keep giving poor men fish, and once the fish is gone the poor men are still hungry (or in Iraqs case, oppressed). Libertarians believe in teaching poor people to fish, so the problem will be solved and they can become self reliant.
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They still did not kick the inspectors out in 1998, as you asserted they did.
    Your assertion is false. I won't speculate about your motive for misstating such a simple matter of historical fact. I'll just note that it's silly to do it, because anyone can check for himself.

    "Iraq accused UNSCOM of spying for the United States, barred American employees of UNSCOM from the country, and declared off-limits a growing number of 'presidential sites'--a category not recognized in the U.N.-Iraq inspections accords. After negotiating with the Iraqis, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan exempted the sprawling presidential sites from inspections. Nevertheless, in October 1998, Iraq said it would no longer cooperate with UNSCOM. That refusal triggered several days of U.S. and British air strikes, known as Operation Desert Fox, in December 1998. UNSCOM withdrew its inspectors before the air strikes began, and they never returned to Iraq." (emphasis added)

    IRAQ: Weapons Inspections: 1991-1998 - Council on Foreign Relations

    And Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on the WTC. Everyone knew that they had nothing to do with the attack of 2011.The attack was simply a convenient excuse to carry out a war
    You don't know any of that. And no amount of asserting your quasi-religious belief about the matter will establish it as fact.

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeburte View Post
    What a terrible business investment. And your investment is already drowned in trillions of dollars of debt. I thought Republicans were supposed to be business savvy. When do you expect to see returns on that investment.
    We are. I take it you don't own stock in military related companies?
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Your assertion is false. I won't speculate about your motive for misstating such a simple matter of historical fact. I'll just note that it's silly to do it, because anyone can check for himself.

    "Iraq accused UNSCOM of spying for the United States, barred American employees of UNSCOM from the country, and declared off-limits a growing number of 'presidential sites'--a category not recognized in the U.N.-Iraq inspections accords. After negotiating with the Iraqis, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan exempted the sprawling presidential sites from inspections. Nevertheless, in October 1998, Iraq said it would no longer cooperate with UNSCOM. That refusal triggered several days of U.S. and British air strikes, known as Operation Desert Fox, in December 1998. UNSCOM withdrew its inspectors before the air strikes began, and they never returned to Iraq." (emphasis added)

    IRAQ: Weapons Inspections: 1991-1998 - Council on Foreign Relations



    You don't know any of that. And no amount of asserting your quasi-religious belief about the matter will establish it as fact.
    Bin Laden and most of his henchmen were Saudis.
    Al Qaeda was behind the attack on the WTC.
    There was no Al Qaeda Iraq before the invasion.
    Bush warned the weapons inspectors to leave Iraq before the US invaded.

    Facts. No "quasi religious" scripture required to see why the invasion was a bad idea. Trying to support the war does take some faith, however.
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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It wasn't an excuse, so much as it was the best option in an effort to actually take seriously the reconstruction and reshaping on the Middle East. Something that wasn't taken seriously before 9/11, was improperly executed in 2003, and then not taken seriously again after the surge.

    There could've been major progress made, but the American public doesn't have the stomach for it. More's the pity, but a short attention span is to be expected in this era of tweets and soundbites,
    Attributing the Iraq exit strategy, after almost a decade of being there and trillions of dollars spent, to a short culture attention span is grossly obtuse.

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Can any conservatives admit that their supposed ideologies of fiscal responsibility, limited government and self reliance are completely thrown out of the window when it comes foreign policy/military? Everything they supposedly stand for in domestic policy is never applied overseas, and they act like big government progressives when it comes to dealing with international conflicts. They support spending reckless amounts of money, the creation of a larger military (which is just more government and more money), and they try to save oppressed peoples of the Middle East with our own military resources, rather than let those people be self reliant or give those people the resources to help themselves. I've never heard a conservative truly admit that they act like socialist overseas. Are they completely aware of this but just don't like to admit to save face? Are they in denial, and actually think they've applied ideals of fiscal responsibility, small government and self reliance to policies in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeburte View Post
    Attributing the Iraq exit strategy, after almost a decade of being there and trillions of dollars spent, to a short culture attention span is grossly obtuse.
    It's absolutely part of it. That and obstinate Shia politicians.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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