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Thread: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The region was never 'stable'. I have no idea why you would say that if you were at all familiar with the Middle East at the time.
    Iraq was pretty stable in 2003 compared to now, same with Syria.

    It doesn't matter about Maliki or the government the Iraqi people chose. The troops had to remain there to sustain stability in the region,
    1.)You just said it wasnt stable....
    2.)It really wasnt stable. Al-Qaeda was around, ISIS was being formed, other armed groups were still around.

    just as they have done elsewhere in the world. It also doesn't matter what local governments are elected or what their domestic policies might be. This is always beside the point wherever US troops are stationed.
    The thing is, the troops didnt bring stability. They brought instability.

    Troops are there to maintain peace (this was especially necessary in a new democracy with a history of terrorism) and when Obama withdrew these troops, despite it being a 'stable' Iraq, we get what we see now. Claiming there was stability in the ME when Saddam was in power is ignoring everything we know about that period.
    The thing is it didnt bring peace..


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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Thats obvious.


    No they were not. They never left. Again, they never left.

    An offshoot did. That did happen. Ok.


    That's funny.....all Military and Intel experts stated AQ was driven out of Iraq. Then AQ itself says it was driven out of Iraq and that it would return. You must have missed that back when the Invisible Sheik was just the Head of AQ in Iraq and gave his speech about it.


    AQ says it's returning to old Iraq strongholds......| Last Updated: Jul. 22, 2012 - 09:47AM <<<<< !


    The first online statement from the new leader of al-Qaida's affiliate in Iraq claims that the militant network is returning to the old strongholds from which it was driven by U.S. forces and their Sunni allies prior to the American withdrawal at the end of last year, and that it is preparing operations to free prisoners and assassinate court officials. The audio identifies the speaker as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who became head of the Islamic State of Iraq in 2010. It was posted late Saturday on a website regularly used by the militant movement to make statements. The statement comes as Sunni insurgents, now believed to be dominated by the ISI, step up attacks against Shiites, government officials and other targets, in what is seen as a bit to undercut the authority of Iraq's state and revive sectarian conflict in the wake of the pull-out of the last American forces in the country in December.

    He urged tribal leaders to send their men to join al-Qaida as it returns to areas from which it withdrew— a reference to reverses the ISI suffered at the hands of U.S. forces and allied Sunni militias in 2007 and 2008. "On the occasion of the return of the (Islamic) State to the regions it evacuated, I urge you to send your sons to join the ranks of the mujahideen in defense of your religion and honor," he said. "The majority of the Sunnis in Iraq support al-Qaida and are waiting for its return."

    AQ says it's returning to old Iraq strongholds | Military Times | militarytimes.com


    Do you think we should believe all those military and intel experts, plus AQ and the Head of ISIS himself when they say AQ was driven out of Iraq?

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    We have to do more than roll with the punches......The others are with 60k Iraqi troops protecting Baghdad.....then we have some in around Baghdad Airport. The Embassy too.
    How much more assistance is being requested?

    Overkill can endanger more American lives, and create resentment in the target nations, religions, and tribes.

    Obama receives many recommendations for policies. Which Military or other leaders are suggesting 1500 advisors is not enough?

    One aspect of Leadership is to decrease the amount of over-kill suggestions.



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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    That's funny.....all Military and Intel experts stated AQ was driven out of Iraq. Then AQ itself says it was driven out of Iraq and that it would return. You must have missed that back when the Invisible Sheik was just the Head of AQ in Iraq and gave his speech about it.
    All they did was change their name to "Islamic State in Iraq".. They never left Iraq. Islamic State of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You can find a list of all their big attacks in Iraq. Never left.


    Do you think we should believe all those military and intel experts, plus AQ and the Head of ISIS himself when they say AQ was driven out of Iraq?
    "Military experts"? Your lone expert is Bagdahdi claiming they will return to dominance.


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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    The Long War Journal reports there are 42 known jihadist training camps in Iraq and Syria. I think that points up the need for aircraft based farther north and west that could react very quickly. If a satellite or U-2 shows people at one of these camps, it will probably be several hours at least before the site can be attacked with cruise missiles or carrier aircraft. And by that time, there may well be no one there to bomb.

    It seems reasonable that helicopters or STOL aircraft operating out of large, heavily defended forward bases would make life much more difficult for the jihadists than it's been made so far. The only place a situation like that now exists is in the area west and northwest of Baghdad, where attack helicopters based in or near the city can respond very fast. They have been doing some of that in coordination with Iraqi troops, and the jihadists have very little protection from them.

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All they did was change their name to "Islamic State in Iraq".. They never left Iraq. Islamic State of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You can find a list of all their big attacks in Iraq. Never left.


    "Military experts"? Your lone expert is Bagdahdi claiming they will return to dominance.
    No. ISIS is a splinter group, one that was seen as too extreme by AQ. But remember, Obama said AQ was on the run in the 2012 elections. So you tell me, which is it?

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Long War Journal reports there are 42 known jihadist training camps in Iraq and Syria. I think that points up the need for aircraft based farther north and west that could react very quickly. If a satellite or U-2 shows people at one of these camps, it will probably be several hours at least before the site can be attacked with cruise missiles or carrier aircraft. And by that time, there may well be no one there to bomb.

    It seems reasonable that helicopters or STOL aircraft operating out of large, heavily defended forward bases would make life much more difficult for the jihadists than it's been made so far. The only place a situation like that now exists is in the area west and northwest of Baghdad, where attack helicopters based in or near the city can respond very fast. They have been doing some of that in coordination with Iraqi troops, and the jihadists have very little protection from them.
    Seems reasonable.

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    No. ISIS is a splinter group, one that was seen as too extreme by AQ.
    You're right they are, and what they did is change their name and bring their fighters with them.

    But remember, Obama said AQ was on the run in the 2012 elections. So you tell me, which is it?
    The problem with this is you and many people here are thinking I am analyzing this as a Obama and Republican issue. I am not. I am saying this (ISIS being created, and the extreme destabilization in the region) is the result of a combination of factors, not just one man...


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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All they did was change their name to "Islamic State in Iraq".. They never left Iraq. Islamic State of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You can find a list of all their big attacks in Iraq. Never left.


    "Military experts"? Your lone expert is Bagdahdi claiming they will return to dominance.

    They were driven out of Iraq by the Sunni and us.....those who we stiffed at the end with BO walking away.

    Yes they still made attacks in Iraq.....but then when AQ themselves point out they were driven out. Despite them saying they withdrew. Shows it for what it is.

    Also in 2006.....Before AQ was driven out of Iraq. They caused the Shia uprising in which Al Sadr led the Shia and their Attacks and Assassinations.




    Militant Group Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says

    American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood of Baghdad, a top American general said today, allowing American troops involved in the “surge” to depart as planned.

    He and other military commanders have maintained for months that the conditions for national reconciliation have been met. They argue that Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the homegrown Sunni extremist group that American intelligence agencies say is foreign-led, has been weakened. They cite in particular the rise of the American-supported citizen volunteers — 67,000 nationwide, according to military figures.

    And though Sunni extremist groups could revive and “reinfest very quickly,” General Fil said, Iraq’s leaders should now have the peace they need to build a trusted, cross-sectarian government. But progress toward that, he said, has been “disappointing.”.....snip~

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/wo...t&emc=rss&_r=0


    Al-Qaeda making comeback in Iraq, officials say.....

    Al-Qaeda is rebuilding in Iraq and has set up training camps for insurgents in the nation's western deserts as the extremist group seizes on regional instability and government security failures to regain strength, officials say.

    During the war and its aftermath, U.S. forces, joined by allied Sunni groups and later by Iraqi counterterror forces, managed to beat back al-Qaeda's Iraqi branch.

    The new growth of al-Qaeda in Iraq, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq, is not entirely unexpected. Last November, the top U.S. military official in Iraq, Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, predicted "turbulence" ahead for Iraq's security forces. But he doubted Iraq would return to the days of widespread fighting between Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents, including al-Qaeda, that brought the Islamic country to the brink of civil war.

    Al-Qaeda making comeback in Iraq, officials say
    6:26 p.m. EDT October 9, 2012


    Note the terms routed, beat back.....New Growth.
    Last edited by MMC; 11-09-14 at 03:42 PM.

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    Re: CNN: 1,500 more troops to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Just came over "breaking news" on the telly-o-vision.

    Huh. Odd how that decision came just after the election, eh?
    Its not enough to do anything. What is needed in Iraq is a permanent presence of international troops. An initial surge of probably 500k plus troops to stabilize the country and allow it to fight out its problems thru elections instead of thru war. Then once all parties realize that it is the preferred method of voicing grievences like the civilized nations in the west, we can leave. Of course this process will take a considerable amount of time. All one has to do is look at how long it took the US to go from a nation at war with itself to where we are today and you will see that this is a struggle that takes considerable time. We should not expect anything different when it comes to Iraq. I think it will take 40-50 years of peaceful political fighting to change the culture there into a civilized one.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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