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Thread: Employment Situation Report for October

  1. #71
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Shifting the burden once again, I'm supposed to ask you to keep the debate within its context. Forget that, it is up to you keep the debate within the context....and guess what...I AM TELLING YOU TO DO SO.
    No one asked me to show anything regarding mid or low wage workers. As far as I'm concerned, the debate is in context. If you wanted that information, ask for it.

    No, the typical worker would be the median of the population.
    How would the typical be the median? The median just means that half of a data sample is higher and the other half is lower. The average takes all numbers in the data set and divides it. That provides a closer representation of what the typical person is actually like. That is why it is called the 'average.'

    I have proven it is.
    No, you haven't. The rest of us (economist, financial analyst and basically anyone with any economic understand) understand that average hourly earnings is benchmarked to wages, and is what we look at when determining the health of the labour market.

    I'm sorry, but we're not going to dumb down the data just so people like you will have an easier time understanding it. Just because you can't understand the data doesn't mean that the date is wrong.

    Except that....you have already conceded that the jobs being created currently are not "average wage" jobs...that is unless your argument is so deluded to believe that new employment is paying @ $24.00 per hr.
    That is why you look at earnings growth, you rather incompetent individual. That is what I did on my very first post in this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post

    Average hourly earnings: +0.03
    Average hourly earnings of private-sector production and nonsupervisory employees: +0.04
    Annualised Growth: 2%
    I would really explain what this means if I honestly thought you were capable of understanding it.

  2. #72
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    No one asked me to show anything regarding mid or low wage workers. As far as I'm concerned, the debate is in context. If you wanted that information, ask for it.
    Again, the context is low/mid workers, you began this portion of the debate discussing them, I responded, the burden is upon you to show that these workers wages have indeed kept up with productivity. I have even allowed the argument to shift to median wage after your objections to min wage. You refuse to support your contention that low/mid or median workers wages have kept pace with productivity gains.



    How would the typical be the median?
    Really? The median wage earner, in the middle of that population group, would not be "typical"? How would they not?



    No, you haven't. The rest of us (economist, financial analyst and basically anyone with any economic understand) understand that average hourly earnings is benchmarked to wages, and is what we look at when determining the health of the labour market.
    Except that again, the context you laid out was not of "average wages/salaries", but of low/mid wage workers. You were discussing them....now you don't want to.

    I'm sorry, but we're not going to dumb down the data just so people like you will have an easier time understanding it. Just because you can't understand the data doesn't mean that the date is wrong.
    I believe dumbing it down is to talk about "average wages" when most of the population or the population of workers you originally mentioned....is not making an "average wage". It is your usual statistical sleight of hand.



    That is why you look at earnings growth, you rather incompetent individual. That is what I did on my very first post in this discussion.
    We are not debating your first post, we are debating posts #32/37.



    I would really explain what this means if I honestly thought you were capable of understanding it.
    I'm sure you are looking for any means to avoid the failure of defending #32/#37
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #73
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, the context is low/mid workers, you began this portion of the debate discussing them, I responded, the burden is upon you to show that these workers wages have indeed kept up with productivity. I have even allowed the argument to shift to median wage after your objections to min wage. You refuse to support your contention that low/mid or median workers wages have kept pace with productivity gains.
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Yes, really....and anytime you want to show that since 1980 wages have tracked productivity...by all means...do so.
    I don't see where mid or low wage workers were involved in that statement.

    Really? The median wage earner, in the middle of that population group, would not be "typical"? How would they not?
    Did you attend public school? That is a real question, because I find it difficult to believe that someone doesn't understand something as basic as this.

    The median wage earner is not the typical wage earner. It's the wage earner where half of the population makes more and less than that person. Average is the method of selecting a "typical" value for data, meaning it takes into account ALL wage earners income, and divide that by the number of workers in the economy. The median income earner doesn't capture the typical income earner. That's really basic.

    Except that again, the context you laid out was not of "average wages/salaries", but of low/mid wage workers. You were discussing them....now you don't want to.
    I didn't lay out anything. From the beginning, I have always mentioned average hourly earnings.

    I believe dumbing it down is to talk about "average wages" when most of the population or the population of workers you originally mentioned....is not making an "average wage". It is your usual statistical sleight of hand.
    Calculating the average wages is not meant to reflect what most people are making. It reflects the typical. Basic arithmetic should be able to tell you why.

    We are not debating your first post, we are debating posts #32/37.
    You're debating that post. Not me. You asked a question and I answered it. It's really not my fault you don't like the answer.

    I'm sure you are looking for any means to avoid the failure of defending #32/#37
    You wanted to know how wages have tracked productivity gains, and I showed you. Again, it really isn't my fault you don't like the answer.
    Last edited by WallStreetVixen; 11-07-14 at 06:59 PM.

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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    How many permanent jobs does the keystone provide the US as it transports all the Canadian oil to ships taking from our shores?



    Oil Companies Go Deep
    Defying predictions after BP's huge spill in 2010, offshore drilling has taken off
    1) How many permanent jobs do roads a bridges create? Seems to me, any job is a good job.

    2) Do you have a link I don't have to subscribe to, to read?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #75
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    That's your opinion. Would you rather have taken Europe's path where austerity has caused a double dip recession and continued double digit unemployment? Sometimes I believe you do. Recession are Republicans biggest "contribution" to the economy and you are jealous of the job conservatives have done there.



    The Republican Recession | New Republic
    It was the Dems that forced the community reinvestment act onto the country and the recession happened on the Demcrats's watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #76
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Nope.
    Yes



    I don't see where mid or low wage workers were involved in that statement.
    Because it is my response to your statement: "But increasing the minimum wage does exactly that. Unless wages above the minimum get an raise (provided that their productivity justifies their income)...."



    Did you attend public school? That is a real question, because I find it difficult to believe that someone doesn't understand something as basic as this.The median wage earner is not the typical wage earner. It's the wage earner where half of the population makes more and less than that person. Average is the method of selecting a "typical" value for data, meaning it takes into account ALL wage earners income, and divide that by the number of workers in the economy. The median income earner doesn't capture the typical income earner. That's really basic.
    I agree that the "average wage" does not line up with the median worker...that is the point, but the point still is, the context was low/mid wage WORKERS, not average wages. You still insist on the higher average wage when it has nothing to do with the workers you cited in post 32.



    I didn't lay out anything. From the beginning, I have always mentioned average hourly earnings.
    "But increasing the minimum wage does exactly that. Unless wages above the minimum get an raise (provided that their productivity justifies their income)...."

    Again, you forgot what the point of the argument is, and you still insist on moving goalposts.

    Calculating the average wages is not meant to reflect what most people are making. It reflects the typical. Basic arithmetic should be able to tell you why.
    All it does is calculate an average wage that is skewed away from median workers.....AND FROM THE CONTEXT YOU CREATED. LOL!



    You're debating that post. Not me. You asked a question and I answered it. It's really not my fault you don't like the answer.
    As per usual, your answer was a non-sequitur, it was not applicable to the workers under discussion.



    You wanted to know how wages have tracked productivity gains, and I showed you. Again, it really isn't my fault you don't like the answer.
    As I said before, you have failed to show that the workers in question, the context you created, have had their wages increase with productivity since 1980.

    I like it fine that this failure is yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #77
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    1) How many permanent jobs do roads a bridges create? Seems to me, any job is a good job.
    Maintaining a good infrastructure is a hell of a lot of permanent work. An oil pipeline for a Canadian company to ship Canadian crude to be sold in China is not. It's a boon for a couple of rich guys at the expense of our land.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    2) Do you have a link I don't have to subscribe to, to read?
    It's Rupert Mudoch's Wall Street Journal. I don't think you need a subscription. At least it didn't when I got there from a google search earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  8. #78
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Yes



    Because it is my response to your statement: "But increasing the minimum wage does exactly that. Unless wages above the minimum get an raise (provided that their productivity justifies their income)...."
    But that isn't what you asked for.

    I agree that the "average wage" does not line up with the median worker...that is the point, but the point still is, the context was low/mid wage WORKERS, not average wages. You still insist on the higher average wage when it has nothing to do with the workers you cited in post 32.
    Average wages are used when comparing the growth of those wages to productivity gains, not the wages of any particular income group.

    Again, just because you don't understand the data, doesn't mean that the data is wrong.

    "But increasing the minimum wage does exactly that. Unless wages above the minimum get an raise (provided that their productivity justifies their income)...."

    Again, you forgot what the point of the argument is, and you still insist on moving goalposts.
    You asked for an answer. You got it.. You should have been more specific. It's not my job to be specific for you.

    All it does is calculate an average wage that is skewed away from median workers.....AND FROM THE CONTEXT YOU CREATED. LOL!
    Both the BLS and BEA understand that there is nothing to be skewed when looking at average hourly earnings. Perhaps you should take your complaints up with them.

    As per usual, your answer was a non-sequitur, it was not applicable to the workers under discussion.
    That's your opinion.

    As I said before, you have failed to show that the workers in question, the context you created, have had their wages increase with productivity since 1980.

    I like it fine that this failure is yours.
    I've already shown how employee wages have outpaced productivity. I'm not really not required to show how they have kept pace with any particular income group because that is not how it works. Again, the average hourly earnings (or labor compensation) of employees are used when comparing the growth of those wages to productivity gains, not the wages of any particular income group. That is how the BLS measures this.

  9. #79
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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Maintaining a good infrastructure is a hell of a lot of permanent work. An oil pipeline for a Canadian company to ship Canadian crude to be sold in China is not. It's a boon for a couple of rich guys at the expense of our land.



    It's Rupert Mudoch's Wall Street Journal. I don't think you need a subscription. At least it didn't when I got there from a google search earlier.
    Spin and lies are sll the Left have to bring to the table.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Employment Situation Report for October

    Employment Situation Improves in October--Except for African Americans | CNS News

    Looks like blacks didn't do so well. Ah what the hell right, they can get welfare right?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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