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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #61
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Now how on earth could any federal judge imagine that federalism, or the right of the people of a state to make their laws, had anything to do with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?
    The 14th amendment was created for the express purpose of limiting federalism when it comes to individual rights. State governments cannot treat people differently under the law based on irrational prejudice.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo allstar View Post
    Yes slavery was the will of the southern democrats also known as "people" just like racist judges can also be refered to as "people"
    Ok great. So upholding segregation was judges upholding the will of the people.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Now how on earth could any federal judge imagine that federalism, or the right of the people of a state to make their laws, had anything to do with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?
    The people of a state do not have the right to make laws that violate the 14th amendment. Yet the discussion in the majority opinion surrounded not on the question of "do these laws violate the 14th amendment rights of the plaintiffs" but "What is the best means for deciding same-sex marriage." Federalism is relevant, but the lengthy discourse of it in the decisions in lieu of a sufficient discussion of the issue at hand is erroneous.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    One can appreciate the ruling which in effect says that courts should interpret law established by legislatures and not establish law from the bench.

    That said, I'm incredibly tired of the whole debate. I don't give a rat's ass about who marries whom and how they want to do it. Get the government out of this mess and let people live their own lives as they see fit - want a church/religious marriage, find a church to marry you - want a civil marriage, visit a lawyer, create a contract, sign off on it and you're done.

    Government is far too intrusive in the personal lives of citizens and this nonsense is a prime example of it.
    Greetings, JC.

    : I care less than you do, if that's possible, with one exception - age limitations. If you are 15 or younger, you're still considered a child by most states - but there are states that allow marriage at 15! Kansas allows marriage at age 15, and New Hampshire is 13 for bride, 14 for groom. These two States, plus the other 48 do require approval from a judge and one or both parents if the persons involved are less than 18 years of age or younger, however. In Shakespeare's tale of Romeo and Juliet, both committed suicide when they couldn't marry at 16 and 13 respectively. Stupid, silly teenagers!

    For the rest of the populace, marry whomever you wish and good luck! "I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life." >>Rita Rudner.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    They glossed over virtually all modern court decisions surrounding marriage and treatment of gay individuals and relied on the 11 word summary judgment of Baker v. Nelson.

    Here is the decision (it starts on page 17)
    http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...ng-11-6-14.pdf

    The dissent starts on page 53, and basically answers your question about how poorly the court ruled.

    The author of the majority opinion has drafted what would make an engrossing TED Talk
    or, possibly, an introductory lecture in Political Philosophy. But as an appellate court decision, it
    wholly fails to grapple with the relevant constitutional question in this appeal: whether a state’s
    constitutional prohibition of same-sex marriage violates equal protection under the Fourteenth
    Amendment. Instead, the majority sets up a false premise—that the question before us is “who
    should decide?”—and leads us through a largely irrelevant discourse on democracy and
    federalism.


    She nailed it.
    Yeah the wholly fails to grasp the constitution is why those 2 judges should be impeached

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Also, fun fact: Over the past 5 years, 24 out of the 25 decisions by the sixth circuit appealed to SCOTUS have been reversed. That's the worst in the nation. Not a very good track record.
    Yet apparently they are brilliant legal "superstars" according to the OP.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ok great. So upholding segregation was judges upholding the will of the people.
    Some people I guess, you know like slave holders and racist judges. Just remember some people also believe Elvis is still alive. Any ruling a judge will make will be upholding the will of somebody so the point is moot.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yeah the wholly fails to grasp the constitution is why those 2 judges should be impeached
    First we start with Obama then we take these two clowns down!

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The 14th amendment was created for the express purpose of limiting federalism when it comes to individual rights. State governments cannot treat people differently under the law based on irrational prejudice.
    Not very accurate. The chief purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to prevent states from depriving blacks of their civil rights. It was not intended to interfere with federalism, which is a structural feature of the Constitution as affirmed by the Tenth Amendment. See New York v. U.S.; Printz v. U.S.

    Of course irrational prejudice is not a valid basis for any law, state or federal. That would be relevant if state laws excluding same-sex partners had no rational basis. Since they do, it is not.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The people of a state do not have the right to make laws that violate the 14th amendment. Yet the discussion in the majority opinion surrounded not on the question of "do these laws violate the 14th amendment rights of the plaintiffs" but "What is the best means for deciding same-sex marriage." Federalism is relevant, but the lengthy discourse of it in the decisions in lieu of a sufficient discussion of the issue at hand is erroneous.
    Of course I don't accept that state marriage laws violate either equal protection or due process by excluding partners of the same sex, any more than they violate those rights by excluding partners who are too closely related, multiple partners, or partners who are already married.

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