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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #411
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Sadly, that ship has sailed long ago. Gov't is in the control business as well as in the selling favors business. Simple laws that treat all equally minimize that control while complex laws allow for carefully targeted exceptions to be added, changed or deleted for the right amount of campaign cash.
    I can't argue with that, but I can argue against it and will continue to argue against it. It's one of the reasons I would favour a flat tax or a concept similar to it. I strongly oppose government involvement in the personal lives of citizens.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Well you know one of the definitions of homophobia: the fear you'll be treated as you/other dudes treat women

    Not saying it was ok for them to do that, but come on, not every homosexual will be into you or treat you that way.
    Look, I completely understand why homosexuals would try to "recruit". I can't tell you how many I've heard tell me that they really want a "straight man", not another queer. It's strange as hell because if they could have them, they wouldn't really be straight men after all. But that's another story. The fact is that the GLBT community does widespread "recruiting". Straight people just call it "seduction", but people do it and normalizing homosexuality would help with that recruitment. The fact that so few homosexuals actually get married should be a clue that marriage itself isn't really the goal here. It is what it is and I don't really care what you or anyone else does sexually. That's your business. I'm just calling it like I see it and I don't see the point in creating the institution of homosexual marriage just for the sake of normalizing homosexuality.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The reverse is equally true; just because something is "natural" does not mean that it should be culturally accepted by a society. Personally, I favor allowing SSM as a state sanctioned relationship option (as well as some others), but I have no reason to get more than my one vote on the matter. Once we start down the path to what compelling state interest supports any "standard" then we are in for some serious time wasting.
    Like more time wasting that affirmation action in college admission? Cause SCOTUS took that up 10 years ago, all over a few hundred spots at a handful of elite schools.

    That millions of americans are homosexual alone makes it not "serious time wasting" in my view, though the argument could be made that to condone discrimination anywhere is to condone discrimination everywhere, or however that goes.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone - take care and have a good evening - goodnight.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone - take care and have a good evening - goodnight.
    Good night, CJ. Be well.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    What that article describes and you've been saying are not the same. Teaching kids that homosexuality *exists*, as the TN bill sought to outlaw, is NOT identical to "recruiting" kids to *be* homosexual, as you've been alleging.

    A huge reason to educate on this is it's likely one or more of their classmates are gay, so the goal is to reduce bullying and a sense of alienation for those who are gay.

    Whereas it seems many on the right wing are kosher with bullying and treating the gay kids like freaks. What kind of message does it send to make a subject taboo? Oh right, that it's so perverse even to discuss the topic will put everyone at risk. But what are we doing right now? Earnest discussion is a good thing!
    I think there are better ways to reduce bullying than telling kids that there's nothing wrong with exploring homosexuality.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone - take care and have a good evening - goodnight.
    Night CJ.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Look, I completely understand why homosexuals would try to "recruit". I can't tell you how many I've heard tell me that they really want a "straight man", not another queer. It's strange as hell because if they could have them, they wouldn't really be straight men after all. But that's another story. The fact is that the GLBT community does widespread "recruiting". Straight people just call it "seduction", but people do it and normalizing homosexuality would help with that recruitment. The fact that so few homosexuals actually get married should be a clue that marriage itself isn't really the goal here. It is what it is and I don't really care what you or anyone else does sexually. That's your business. I'm just calling it like I see it and I don't see the point in creating the institution of homosexual marriage just for the sake of normalizing homosexuality.
    It just comes across as paranoid to me. If you're secure in your sexuality, what is there to fear? Try as some might, they'll never be able to make you suddenly enjoy sucking dick

    You want to know another reason few marry? Because it was never until very recently an achievable goal, and because the motive for many heterosexuals to marry - the "american dream", the "square's life" - is seen my many LGBT as not achievable even IF they marry. They're already outside the box, they've already been rejected family who pressure their hetero kids to marry and go on about wanting grandkids. So given all that, why bother?

    But that brings us to the 10% who do marry and soundly reject your theory of "recruitment." How do you justify treating their relationship as inferior and unworthy of equal rights?

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I think there are better ways to reduce bullying than telling kids that there's nothing wrong with exploring homosexuality.
    twisting words...i never for a moment said "exploring." But ok, how would you reduce bullying of homosexual kids, without being able to even bring up the topic?

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    It just comes across as paranoid to me. If you're secure in your sexuality, what is there to fear? Try as some might, they'll never be able to make you suddenly enjoy sucking dick

    You want to know another reason few marry? Because it was never until very recently an achievable goal, and because the motive for many heterosexuals to marry - the "american dream", the "square's life" - is seen my many LGBT as not achievable even IF they marry. They're already outside the box, they've already been rejected family who pressure their hetero kids to marry and go on about wanting grandkids. So given all that, why bother?

    But that brings us to the 10% who do marry and soundly reject your theory of "recruitment." How do you justify treating their relationship as inferior and unworthy of equal rights?
    That 10% is why I'm on the fence about domestic partnerships and would even be inclined to support a law that provides that. The fact that it's not a marriage doesn't mean that it's not a loving relationship or that there shouldn't be any sort of legal structure to support such an alternative lifestyle arrangement if the participants so desire it. But it's still something that only would apply to 1 in 100 and that frequency only if we consider that 10% of the population is homosexual and 10% of homosexuals marry and both of those statistics are actually on the high side.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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