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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #351
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Homosexuals and heterosexuals are "equally normal" and there are only two ways of having the government recognize that - a) get out of the marriage business and stop setting social policy through the tax code or b) recognize all codified relationships as equal as they relate to access to benefits under the tax code.
    Unless we want to redefine "normal", it isn't possible to argue that homosexuality is normal, let alone "equally normal".

    nor·mal
    ˈnôrməl/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
    "it's quite normal for puppies to bolt their food"
    synonyms: usual, standard, ordinary, customary, conventional, habitual, accustomed, expected, wonted; More
    antonyms: unusual
    (of a person) free from physical or mental disorders.
    2.
    technical
    (of a line, ray, or other linear feature) intersecting a given line or surface at right angles.
    3.
    MEDICINE
    (of a salt solution) containing the same salt concentration as the blood.
    CHEMISTRYdated
    (of a solution) containing one gram-equivalent of solute per liter.
    4.
    GEOLOGY
    denoting a fault or faulting in which a relative downward movement occurred in the strata situated on the upper side of the fault plane.
    noun
    noun: normal; plural noun: normals
    1.
    the usual, average, or typical state or condition.
    "her temperature was above normal"
    informal
    a person who is conventional or healthy.
    2.
    technical
    a line at right angles to a given line or surface.
    Origin

    mid 17th century (in the sense ‘right-angled’): from Latin normalis, from norma ‘carpenter's square’ (see norm). Current senses date from the early 19th century.
    Translate normal to
    Use over time for: normal
    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that anything that isn't "normal" is wrong, but I think enough words have been abused for the sake of homosexuality already and that we shouldn't add "normal" to the list of words that must be redefined in order to appease.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  2. #352
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Unless we want to redefine "normal", it isn't possible to argue that homosexuality is normal, let alone "equally normal".



    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that anything that isn't "normal" is wrong, but I think enough words have been abused for the sake of homosexuality already and that we shouldn't add "normal" to the list of words that must be redefined in order to appease.
    There's no need to abuse any words provided that there's no need to label homosexuality in derogatory terms. It's normal, from my perspective, because there are lots of examples of homosexual behaviour throughout nature. I don't consider a minority, regardless of the category, to be abnormal. They're just simply different. Not sure what makes my life's normal any more normal than another person's normal. As long as all individuals respect all individuals, nobody loses out.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #353
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    There's no need to abuse any words provided that there's no need to label homosexuality in derogatory terms. It's normal, from my perspective, because there are lots of examples of homosexual behaviour throughout nature. I don't consider a minority, regardless of the category, to be abnormal.
    Are there any human characterisics you would consider not to be normal? If the litmus is whether there are lots of examples in nature, it seems to me that anything abnormal must be normal. Abnormal size, abnormal strength, abnormal intelligence, abnormal pigmentation, abnormal genetic conditions, abnormal psychology (i.e. mental illness) would all be "normal" by that definition. I'm hard pressed to think of anything that isn't (which would make the word meaningless).
    Last edited by Taylor; 11-09-14 at 03:06 PM.

  4. #354
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    There's no need to abuse any words provided that there's no need to label homosexuality in derogatory terms. It's normal, from my perspective, because there are lots of examples of homosexual behaviour throughout nature. I don't consider a minority, regardless of the category, to be abnormal. They're just simply different. Not sure what makes my life's normal any more normal than another person's normal. As long as all individuals respect all individuals, nobody loses out.
    There are many examples of homosexual behavior but there are extroardinarily few examples of homosexual pair-bonding in animals that mate for life. I don't see any natural example of anything that would represent a model for homosexual marriage.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Are you saying that adoption isn't a legal kinship as well? Plus that kinship exists for the length of the marriage (kinship ties to in laws can actually last longer than a marriage in some places).

    But birth certificates mainly identify who your parents are and through that link you legally to other relatives.
    I'm saying there isn't a genetic lineage in an adoption.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The interesting thing is that these things have to do with having a partner; not a marriage license. There are a LOT of people living together that aren't married - and they get the same benefits. Marriage doesn't bring these benefits. Being a stable person capable of having a working relationship with someone else does.
    No, obviously a piece of paper is the best medicine known to man!
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  7. #357
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The interesting thing is that these things have to do with having a partner; not a marriage license. There are a LOT of people living together that aren't married - and they get the same benefits. Marriage doesn't bring these benefits. Being a stable person capable of having a working relationship with someone else does.
    No actually most don't get those same benefits. There is a noted difference between those who are married and those just cohabiting, since it is almost impossible to separate the commitment level in cohabitation, to find out how committed they really are.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm saying there isn't a genetic lineage in an adoption.
    Which has nothing to do with why you would track legal relationships. Adopted children and their children are still considered legal relations of their adopting parents.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #359
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No actually most don't get those same benefits. There is a noted difference between those who are married and those just cohabiting, since it is almost impossible to separate the commitment level in cohabitation, to find out how committed they really are.
    Great. Post the evidence that supports your assertion that living in a committed relationship doesn't bring most of the benefits of marriage without a piece of paper stamped by some official sanctioning it. Thanks.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, obviously a piece of paper is the best medicine known to man!
    That's exactly the point. You're spot-on.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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