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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #331
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    It's not about marriage benefiting the "state" the government, the real question is does Civil Marriage benefit society - the people that participate in marriage.

    1. Lower suicide rate when comparing single persons and married persons.
    2. Married people are typically healthier.
    3. Married people tend to live longer.
    4. Married people tend to have better sex lives.
    5. Married people tend to be happier then unmarried people.
    6. Married people tend to earn more. (i.e. they are more financially stable)
    7. Married people tend to have lower rates of fatal accidents.
    8. Married people tend to have lower rates of chronic illnesses.
    9. Married people tend to have lower rates of alcoholism.
    10. Married people tend to have lower rates of depression.


    Society benefits when, in general, members of the population are happier, healthier, and more finacially stable.


    Marriage as a Public Issue, Princeton University


    >>>>
    The interesting thing is that many of these things do not have anything to do with having children, only being married. In fact, some of those things are most true when it comes to married couples without children.

    Can parenthood make us miserable? How couples with children are LESS happy than those without (but only if they're married and earn over $50,000) | Daily Mail Online
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #332
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Loving vs Virginia did not declare civil marriage a basic right. Civil marriage, like driving on public roads, requires a license and is more of a privilege than a right. You don't need a license to drive on private property, and you don't need a license to have a private marriage. You have the "right" to do these without government interference.
    And getting a driver's license is still protected by the 14th Amendment. See my previous post on this.

    It would be unconstitutional to prevent someone from getting a driver's license just because they were gay. I guarantee that would not fly under constitutional review.

    In fact, even restricting marriage to only heterosexuals would not fly when it comes to constitutional review either. Because despite what so many want to believe about same sex marriage, homosexuals, and the Constitution, they know that any law that said specifically "only heterosexuals can marry each other", would be struck down under the 14th so fast.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #333
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And getting a driver's license is still protected by the 14th Amendment. See my previous post on this.

    It would be unconstitutional to prevent someone from getting a driver's license just because they were gay. I guarantee that would not fly under constitutional review.

    In fact, even restricting marriage to only heterosexuals would not fly when it comes to constitutional review either. Because despite what so many want to believe about same sex marriage, homosexuals, and the Constitution, they know that any law that said specifically "only heterosexuals can marry each other", would be struck down under the 14th so fast.
    This is where the analogy breaks down, because driving is an action and marriage is a relationship between individuals. Yes, "restricting marriage to only heterosexuals would not fly" - but mostly for reasons that aren't relevant to the gay marriage issue. Such a law would be irrational because it would allow anyone to marry anyone else so long as one of them didn't admit/claim to be gay. Tired of being married? Just say "You know what, honey? I think I might be gay!" and POOF! Your marriage is gone.

  4. #334
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A stable, more self-sufficient household.
    I would disagree with "stable" given the divorce rate, and what is the society benefit of two people living together?

    I would really doubt that a couple is more self sufficient married than they were single. If so then marriage would promote itself.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #335
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    True, but if government creates an imbalance, then it is a civil rights and discrimination issue - the overreach creates the injustice. There would be no injustice if government didn't set unjust rules in areas where they have no business legislating in the 21st century.
    Hmm that sounds like a conspiracy.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  6. #336
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    This is where the analogy breaks down, because driving is an action and marriage is a relationship between individuals. Yes, "restricting marriage to only heterosexuals would not fly" - but mostly for reasons that aren't relevant to the gay marriage issue. Such a law would be irrational because it would allow anyone to marry anyone else so long as one of them didn't admit/claim to be gay. Tired of being married? Just say "You know what, honey? I think I might be gay!" and POOF! Your marriage is gone.
    Because one is an 'action' and one is a 'relationship' is irrelevant... and incorrect. Marriage is both a action and a state of relation.

    To marry is not the same as being married.


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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I fully understand your passion on this (SSM) issue, I do not understand how you are not basing your arguments on a tangent (or implied right) since marriage is not mentioned, at all, in the US constitution. Note that the 15th and 19th amendments were added (due to majority opinion?) to address issues which you now seem to imply were "fully covered" under the 14th amendment.

    Sometimes, we need to make things clear, via constitutional amendment, what is (and is not) covered by the US constitution. It seems to have taken constitutional amendment to ban/restore the recreational use of alcohol yet no such constitutional action was needed to ban marijuana nationwide - why do suppose that was?
    There is a difference in the Supreme Court using the 14th amendment as judicial reasoning and the American people passing a Constitutional amendment.

    The Supreme court does not rule-in a Constitutional amendments. The Supreme court could have used the 14th amendment as judicial reasoning for former slaves and women's vote... The American people chose to codify those rights more succinctly.


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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The reasons for birth certificates are to establish a legal kinship and track that kinship. That is the main reason for birth certificates, just as the main reason for marriage licenses (after filing, nowdays) is to establish the legal kinship of spouses and track that kinship.
    First, I disagree with the simplification of the need to track birth certificates. Birth Certificates are sources of a person's identity, for establishing citizenship and genealogy, all of which are valued by the state. What is the value in tracking the "kinship" of a marriage? Especially marriages that can't sprout any genealogical branches.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  9. #339
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    There is a difference in the Supreme Court using the 14th amendment as judicial reasoning and the American people passing a Constitutional amendment.

    The Supreme court does not rule-in a Constitutional amendments. The Supreme court could have used the 14th amendment as judicial reasoning for former slaves and women's vote... The American people chose to codify those rights more succinctly.
    Are you kidding me? The 14th amendment specifically omits the women's right to vote.

    But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #340
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    First, I disagree with the simplification of the need to track birth certificates. Birth Certificates are sources of a person's identity, for establishing citizenship and genealogy, all of which are valued by the state. What is the value in tracking the "kinship" of a marriage? Especially marriages that can't sprout any genealogical branches.
    Are you saying that adoption isn't a legal kinship as well? Plus that kinship exists for the length of the marriage (kinship ties to in laws can actually last longer than a marriage in some places).

    But birth certificates mainly identify who your parents are and through that link you legally to other relatives.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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