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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #321
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's a legally binding contract and facilitating such is a legitimate government function. I don't know what else to tell you.
    But how does a marriage contract benefit the state? The contract between the fisherman and the fish monger promotes commerce which is beneficial to the state. What does marriage provide?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Then it doesn't have anything to do with civil rights or any sort of discrimination. It's simply more government over-reach.
    True, but if government creates an imbalance, then it is a civil rights and discrimination issue - the overreach creates the injustice. There would be no injustice if government didn't set unjust rules in areas where they have no business legislating in the 21st century.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #323
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    But how does a marriage contract benefit the state? The contract between the fisherman and the fish monger promotes commerce which is beneficial to the state. What does marriage provide?
    It serves society by providing enforcement for a desired contract. If that contract is not recognized, we have no enforcement capability. In order for us to enjoy the contract, both in the form of the legal status of the relationship and in the form of dissolution agreements, it must be recognized.

    It serves the state by serving the will of the people.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    But how does a marriage contract benefit the state? The contract between the fisherman and the fish monger promotes commerce which is beneficial to the state. What does marriage provide?

    It's not about marriage benefiting the "state" the government, the real question is does Civil Marriage benefit society - the people that participate in marriage.

    1. Lower suicide rate when comparing single persons and married persons.
    2. Married people are typically healthier.
    3. Married people tend to live longer.
    4. Married people tend to have better sex lives.
    5. Married people tend to be happier then unmarried people.
    6. Married people tend to earn more. (i.e. they are more financially stable)
    7. Married people tend to have lower rates of fatal accidents.
    8. Married people tend to have lower rates of chronic illnesses.
    9. Married people tend to have lower rates of alcoholism.
    10. Married people tend to have lower rates of depression.


    Society benefits when, in general, members of the population are happier, healthier, and more finacially stable.


    Marriage as a Public Issue, Princeton University


    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 11-08-14 at 06:18 PM.

  5. #325
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That isn't answering the question. There are real reasons for wills, and powers of attorney and birth certificates, but what is the state's purpose in acknowledging a marriage?
    The reasons for birth certificates are to establish a legal kinship and track that kinship. That is the main reason for birth certificates, just as the main reason for marriage licenses (after filing, nowdays) is to establish the legal kinship of spouses and track that kinship.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #326
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No, because it was based on race alone which the 14th amendment specifically addresses. What was incorrect in Loving v. Virginia was that marriage or any other state granted, by license' status is a "basic right". States grant the "right" to drive via license but may deny that "right" based on many, otherwise unconstitutional, factors - for example not paying a ticket (or child support) without any due process at all.
    You are very wrong on this. Driving is a privilege, but under equal protection laws, may not be limited based on race, sex, sexuality, ethnicity (although citizenship is actually an approved reason to deny people the right to having a state driver's license), and in certain ways, age or disability (when those things do not actually affect the ability to drive or really just can't be justified as furthering a state interest).

    Examples:

    Unconstitutional - not allowing Asians to get a driver's license
    Constitutional - not allowing anyone who is not a citizenship to get a driver's license (although some states do allow non-citizens to get a license)

    Unconstitutional - restricting or removing a driver's license between the ages of 37 and 42 (pretty sure the state would have a very hard time showing a legitimate state interest furthered by such a restriction/law)
    Constitutional - age limits that do not allow a 12 year old to drive (can be legitimately shown to further a state interest in preventing accidents on the road from immature drivers and lack of legitimate need of a license at that age)

    Unconstitutional - requiring heterosexuals, and only heterosexuals, to take a driving test for a license; anyone willing to put homosexual or bisexual on their license doesn't need to take a driving test
    Constitutional - requiring everyone, regardless of their sexuality to pass a driving test for a license
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #327
    Outer space potato man

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    But how does a marriage contract benefit the state? The contract between the fisherman and the fish monger promotes commerce which is beneficial to the state. What does marriage provide?
    A stable, more self-sufficient household.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  8. #328
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are very wrong on this. Driving is a privilege, but under equal protection laws, may not be limited based on race, sex, sexuality, ethnicity (although citizenship is actually an approved reason to deny people the right to having a state driver's license), and in certain ways, age or disability (when those things do not actually affect the ability to drive or really just can't be justified as furthering a state interest).

    Examples:

    Unconstitutional - not allowing Asians to get a driver's license
    Constitutional - not allowing anyone who is not a citizenship to get a driver's license (although some states do allow non-citizens to get a license)

    Unconstitutional - restricting or removing a driver's license between the ages of 37 and 42 (pretty sure the state would have a very hard time showing a legitimate state interest furthered by such a restriction/law)
    Constitutional - age limits that do not allow a 12 year old to drive (can be legitimately shown to further a state interest in preventing accidents on the road from immature drivers and lack of legitimate need of a license at that age)

    Unconstitutional - requiring heterosexuals, and only heterosexuals, to take a driving test for a license; anyone willing to put homosexual or bisexual on their license doesn't need to take a driving test
    Constitutional - requiring everyone, regardless of their sexuality to pass a driving test for a license
    You forgot to mention that the 14th amendment doesn't actually specifically address race!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #329
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No, because it was based on race alone which the 14th amendment specifically addresses. What was incorrect in Loving v. Virginia was that marriage or any other state granted, by license' status is a "basic right". States grant the "right" to drive via license but may deny that "right" based on many, otherwise unconstitutional, factors - for example not paying a ticket (or child support) without any due process at all.
    Funny that the 14th doesn't actually mention race at all then, only "citizens"

  10. #330
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No, because it was based on race alone which the 14th amendment specifically addresses. What was incorrect in Loving v. Virginia was that marriage or any other state granted, by license' status is a "basic right". States grant the "right" to drive via license but may deny that "right" based on many, otherwise unconstitutional, factors - for example not paying a ticket (or child support) without any due process at all.
    Loving vs Virginia did not declare civil marriage a basic right. Civil marriage, like driving on public roads, requires a license and is more of a privilege than a right. You don't need a license to drive on private property, and you don't need a license to have a private marriage. You have the "right" to do these without government interference.

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