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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #301
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Look at historical context for *why* it excluded gender. The same congress that voted in the 13th (abolishing slavery) did so with the agreement it would not lead to votes for women. The 14th says all *citizens* and does not mention race and it can be argued section 2 deals with voting specifically and refers to "male" only because women could not as of yet vote. The 14th would never have passed if it included votes for women, sadly

    Further, section 5 seems to foresee challenges to equal protection for classes not even thought of at the time by establishing authority to enforce the amendment.

    I see nothing in the 14th that designates race as the only class to be granted equal protection, and that's certainly not becoming of a "free country" to withhold equal protection from people for ANY reason
    I am looking at historical context it is you that "envision" future and different interpretations. As you noted, section 5 allows congress, not the SCOTUS or the states, can pass additional laws, based on the 14th amendment.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... like an all male draft for a unisex military? The idea that any (every?) law must treat all folks equally is great on paper but then why the need for the 15th and 19th amendment if the 14th "really" covers that ground?
    In the past, I've explained to you repeatedly that the equal protection clause does not apply to any conceivable difference. Would you like me to explain this to you again?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I am looking at historical context it is you that "envision" future and different interpretations. As you noted, section 5 allows congress, not the SCOTUS or the states, can pass additional laws, based on the 14th amendment.
    SCOTUS never needed their permission to enforce the amendment, seeing as that's the court's specific function. Why would congress need to craft legislation for equal protection? Because of widespread violations, like jim crow south

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I am looking at historical context it is you that "envision" future and different interpretations. As you noted, section 5 allows congress, not the SCOTUS or the states, can pass additional laws, based on the 14th amendment.
    Under your interpretation, Loving v. Virginia was an incorrect decision.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Kids?

    The only victims are children. If there's no children, live and learn!

    Tim-
    Yes when the father pays 450 a month for child support for 4 children, while the mother is paying for food, rent, electricity, water, insurance (since despite being ordered to provide it, dad doesn't), car, clothes, school, etc. And dad was the one to file for divorce. All those things generally cost more than 900 a month when talking for 4 children.

    This all assumes he actually pays when he's supposed to too.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sorry, but the purpose of government recognized marriage has nothing to do with enforcing private contracts.
    Without state recognition of a contract, it effectively doesn't exist as there would be no enforcement mechanism.

    As people wish to enter into such a contract, the recognition, facilitation and enforcement of the contract is legitimate state business.

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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Under your interpretation, Loving v. Virginia was an incorrect decision.
    No, because it was based on race alone which the 14th amendment specifically addresses. What was incorrect in Loving v. Virginia was that marriage or any other state granted, by license' status is a "basic right". States grant the "right" to drive via license but may deny that "right" based on many, otherwise unconstitutional, factors - for example not paying a ticket (or child support) without any due process at all.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No, because it was based on race alone which the 14th amendment specifically addresses. What was incorrect in Loving v. Virginia was that marriage or any other state granted, by license' status is a "basic right". States grant the "right" to drive via license but may deny that "right" based on many, otherwise unconstitutional, factors - for example not paying a ticket (or child support) without any due process at all.
    You should read the 14th amendment again.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Without state recognition of a contract, it effectively doesn't exist as there would be no enforcement mechanism.

    As people wish to enter into such a contract, the recognition, facilitation and enforcement of the contract is legitimate state business.
    Yes, yes, so anyway, the purpose of government recognized marriage has nothing to do with enforcing private contracts because we are not dealing with a private contract. We are dealing with something that is entirely the creation of law and under the complete control of the state.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, yes, so anyway, the purpose of government recognized marriage has nothing to do with enforcing private contracts because we are not dealing with a private contract. We are dealing with something that is entirely the creation of law and under the complete control of the state.
    It's a voluntary private contract with terms according to the constituents. You've never heard of a pre-nup?

    When private citizens wish to enter into a legally binding contract, it is state business to see to the facilitation and enforcement of that contract.

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