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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #291
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Kids?
    No.

    The only victims are children. If there's no children, live and learn!
    I suppose. Men are certainly not victims. **** ups pay prices, that's life.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... like an all male draft for a unisex military? The idea that any (every?) law must treat all folks equally is great on paper but then why the need for the 15th and 19th amendment if the 14th "really" covers that ground?
    because the 14th itself carved out an exception based on gender:

    "the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I agree the government should stay out of it. However, "We the People" are the government and many of WE said NO to SSM.
    i'm so thankful that you the people are in fact NOT the government, and the trashing of one ballot initiative after another proves that. Joe the plumber is in fact NOT capable of deciding anything more complex than how to fix a toilet.

  4. #294
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    because the 14th itself carved out an exception based on gender:

    "the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."
    So we seem to agree that at least as far as the 14th amendment goes that the "equal protection" clause does not apply to gender and that the 19th addresses nothing except for the right to vote. In other words, the 14th and 15th amendments were intended to be narrowly targeted to the matter of racial discrimination which makes sense in light of the US civil war and the 19th to apply to gender in voting alone as is contains no "equal protection" clause at all.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #295
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Vows don't mean "nothing". There are issues of assets, obligations and other things to be resolved in a divorce.

    How can anyone believe enforcing private contracts is not a function of the state?
    What makes you think we are talking about enforcing private contracts?

  6. #296
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What makes you think we are talking about enforcing private contracts?
    That's the purpose of the state recognizing marriage. That's what Hicup and I were discussing before you interrupted.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-07-14 at 09:44 PM.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's the purpose of the state recognizing marriage. That's what Hicup and I were discussing before you interrupted.
    No, it's not.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it's not.
    I was having the discussion, not you. Quoting me and having no idea what was being discussed is rather silly, yes?

    It's probably a bad idea to interrupt a discussion if you have no clue what's being discussed. Of course, I have no idea what you were talking about prior to quoting me, as I was not talking to you.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I was having the discussion, not you. Quoting me and having no idea what was being discussed is rather silly, yes?

    It's probably a bad idea to interrupt a discussion if you have no clue what's being discussed. Of course, I have no idea what you were talking about prior to quoting me, as I was not talking to you.
    Sorry, but the purpose of government recognized marriage has nothing to do with enforcing private contracts.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So we seem to agree that at least as far as the 14th amendment goes that the "equal protection" clause does not apply to gender and that the 19th addresses nothing except for the right to vote. In other words, the 14th and 15th amendments were intended to be narrowly targeted to the matter of racial discrimination which makes sense in light of the US civil war and the 19th to apply to gender in voting alone as is contains no "equal protection" clause at all.
    Look at historical context for *why* it excluded gender. The same congress that voted in the 13th (abolishing slavery) did so with the agreement it would not lead to votes for women. The 14th says all *citizens* and does not mention race and it can be argued section 2 deals with voting specifically and refers to "male" only because women could not as of yet vote. The 14th would never have passed if it included votes for women, sadly

    Further, section 5 seems to foresee challenges to equal protection for classes not even thought of at the time by establishing authority to enforce the amendment.

    I see nothing in the 14th that designates race as the only class to be granted equal protection, and that's certainly not becoming of a "free country" to withhold equal protection from people for ANY reason

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