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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #261
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Dealing with end of life decisions, property, especially when it was earned during a longterm relationship, or is so entwined that it would be difficult to separate. Dealing with who gets to make certain decisions when people don't otherwise designate someone to do this (which we're human, it happens). Name a responsible party for your expenses because you agreed to them on paper. Recognize the fact that people in relationships share expenses. So much more. Recognize that there are times when people need help because they agreed to take care of another person. These are all made easier with marriage. In the past, people simply trusted, but that won't work now.
    As I pointed out before, this is all achieved through a power of attorney, which is far easier to break than a marriage.

    Ending a long term relationship is also far easier than ending a marriage, so it doesn't help in that regard, either.

    You and Ecofarm are going FAR out of your way to try and justify marriage but all you do is devalue it because you can't admit the one REAL purpose that the state promotes marriage because it also happens to be the one thing a gay couple doesn't have all the parts necessary to accomplish. You devalue marriage in an attempt to normalize it to gay relationships.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  2. #262
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Absolutely nothing. Marriage in no way helps property, contract or equity and trust law. You're totally right, jmotivator. Since civil marriage does not help define legal relationships between people, we should totally ban gay marriage [/sarcasm]
    And I never said any such thing. I am pointing out that there is no societal need that is met with promoting gay marriage. I am in favor of letting the states decide for themselves what types of marriage they choose to promote based on the value they believe such relationships bring to their state.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  3. #263
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Of course it is. People wish to enter into legally binding relationships. It's a matter of contract facilitation.
    It sounds so romantic when you say it.

    But no, marriage is a different kind of relationship than the relationship between a fisherman and a fishmonger.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  4. #264
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    But no, marriage is a different kind of relationship than the relationship between a fisherman and a fishmonger.
    It's a legally binding contract and facilitating such is a legitimate government function. I don't know what else to tell you.

    It sounds so romantic when you say it.
    I get that a lot but thanks.

  5. #265
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The problem is that banning same-sex marriage in no way furthers this interest.
    Under rational basis review, there is no requirement that the law be narrowly tailored, so this really isn't a problem.

    I can see sometime one taking issue with the level of scrutiny applied, but I think it's pretty clear that these sorts of marriage laws survive minimal scrutiny. The vast majority of laws do.
    Last edited by Taylor; 11-07-14 at 05:05 PM.

  6. #266
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    One can appreciate the ruling which in effect says that courts should interpret law established by legislatures and not establish law from the bench.

    That said, I'm incredibly tired of the whole debate. I don't give a rat's ass about who marries whom and how they want to do it. Get the government out of this mess and let people live their own lives as they see fit - want a church/religious marriage, find a church to marry you - want a civil marriage, visit a lawyer, create a contract, sign off on it and you're done.

    Government is far too intrusive in the personal lives of citizens and this nonsense is a prime example of it.
    I agree the government should stay out of it. However, "We the People" are the government and many of WE said NO to SSM.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  7. #267
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not as easily workable as simply having marriage.
    Changing your deed to your house to include another person for example is not an overly hard process.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Of course it is. People wish to enter into legally binding relationships. It's a matter of contract facilitation.
    How is that a valid purpose of the state?

  9. #269
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Changing your deed to your house to include another person for example is not an overly hard process.

    True, getting the name on the deed is only part of it though. There then needs to be finical documentation that goes along with it which the non-spousal partners then show the ownership relationship (50/50, 60/40, etc.) and they have to keep track of the financial documents for the mortgage on who pays what.

    Let's say a couple buys a house valued at $300,000 with 50/50 ownership. If one individual puts in $300,000 and the other nothing, then the other person has received a gift from the purchaser and is subject to the gift tax on anything over $10,000. Now if the house wasn't bought for cash, the purchasing and mortgage documents will have to be maintained showing showing each individual investment during the period where the house is owned to maintain the percentages of ownership.

    On the other hand my wife an I don't have to worry about such things. We purchased a house together, our income goes into a central pool to pay bills which includes such things as our mortgage. We don't have to maintain separate financial documents.

    I could buy her a $1,000,000 house hand over the keys with her name only on the lease and since she's my spouse there is no gift tax.



    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 11-07-14 at 05:53 PM.

  10. #270
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I agree the government should stay out of it. However, "We the People" are the government and many of WE said NO to SSM.
    Well, I appreciate the sentiment, but if the government wasn't in the marriage business, whomever I or you marry would be none of the "We the People's" business.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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