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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

  1. #171
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    correct and they can vary until they infringe on "rights" and then they get corrected which is exactly what the fed is supposed to do.

    If that's the case, then why is it I cannot buy a handgun in NY State even though I have zero criminal history, age 46 and have no mental instability, BUT, I can go to another state and buy one off the street? Last I checked the 2nd amendment was in the Constitution, however, the states do indeed get to decide how they procure my "rights" under the USC.

    Seems a tad inconsistent, no? This decision outlined the concept of "laboratories" in it's ruling, and rightfully so. Sutton actually double dog dared the USSC to overturn him, by shoving the history and precedent of constitutional authority in their faces.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    If that's the case, then why is it I cannot buy a handgun in NY State even though I have zero criminal history, age 46 and have no mental instability, BUT, I can go to another state and buy one off the street? Last I checked the 2nd amendment was in the Constitution, however, the states do indeed get to decide how they procure my "rights" under the USC.

    Seems a tad inconsistent, no? This decision outlined the concept of "laboratories" in it's ruling, and rightfully so. Sutton actually double dog dared the USSC to overturn him, by shoving the history and precedent of constitutional authority in their faces.

    Tim-
    Because laws haven't been corrected doesn't mean that others shouldn't be corrected as they come up.

    Plus, I'm willing to bet you could buy handguns on plenty of streets in NY state, it just wouldn't be legal.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #173
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The problem is that they treat everyone the same. I don't agree with such laws either, but they are almost impossible to challenge under an equal protection claim, like marriage bans are being challenged under. It comes down to can the law be challenged and who has standing to do so. Same sex marriage bans can easily be challenged due to you can easily show that some group is being treated unequally by the law, due to the law or that it violates some other right specifically guaranteed by the US Constitution.

    States must only defend their laws when those laws are challenged and the person challenging them can show standing.

    But that's the point, and was explained in the decision by Sutton. "Equally" in terms of this question is really a matter of opinion, of which no material evidence exists that homosexuals compliment each other in the way the people have decided they want marriage to do so. That's about it in a nutshell. Society has decided that, notwithstanding full inclusion to all sorts of marriage arrangements, lacking material data to suggest otherwise, society has decided that one form of marriage is the most suitable for society to continue.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    But that's the point, and was explained in the decision by Sutton. "Equally" in terms of this question is really a matter of opinion, of which no material evidence exists that homosexuals compliment each other in the way the people have decided they want marriage to do so. That's about it in a nutshell. Society has decided that, notwithstanding full inclusion to all sorts of marriage arrangements, lacking material data to suggest otherwise, society has decided that one form of marriage is the most suitable for society to continue.

    Tim-
    And Sutton is wrong. The same sex couples have standing under the 14th Amendment because they are being treated differently by the laws based on their relative genders, the fact that their genders together do not constitute what others consider "marriage" eventhough their relative genders/sexes do not conflict legally with actual marriage laws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #175
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    1.)If that's the case, then why is it I cannot buy a handgun in NY State even though I have zero criminal history, age 46 and have no mental instability, BUT, I can go to another state and buy one off the street? Last I checked the 2nd amendment was in the Constitution, however, the states do indeed get to decide how they procure my "rights" under the USC.

    Seems a tad inconsistent, no? This decision outlined the concept of "laboratories" in it's ruling, and rightfully so. Sutton actually double dog dared the USSC to overturn him, by shoving the history and precedent of constitutional authority in their faces.


    Tim-
    1.) i agree, that shouldn't be the case, if it bothers you fight it
    I fight for guns rights myself, unfortunately gun laws are harder to fight by default.

    a married gay couple moving to a state that has bigoted and discriminating laws and fighting for them or somethign natural happens like health, death, property or child issues that forces them to fight for thier rights is easier since theres no crime involved.

    me leaving PA and takign my gun into the heart of NYC, getting caught, arrested and charged with a felony and then fighting for my rights is a touch more difficult.

    but again, fight against that wrong! It seems you want a wrong mean somethign more than it does, it doesnt lol

    2.) you are free to have that opinion but to me it just seemed like he sidestep. I saw nothing of what you speak whatsoever, it was almost eye numbing, just big double talk, circle talk and a very weak nonrulling that will now force SCOTUS to rule. which i like!

    like I said i expected a broken circuit and welcome it! I think this will speed things up and now equality will happen sooner then my guess of 2016 but possibly next year.

    fact still remains states infringing on rights can get corrected and its unconstitutional.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 11-07-14 at 12:24 PM.
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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because laws haven't been corrected doesn't mean that others shouldn't be corrected as they come up.

    Plus, I'm willing to bet you could buy handguns on plenty of streets in NY state, it just wouldn't be legal.
    shhhhhhhhhh dont point out the meaninglessness of his failed point
    Last edited by AGENT J; 11-07-14 at 12:23 PM.
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The problem is that they treat everyone the same. I don't agree with such laws either, but they are almost impossible to challenge under an equal protection claim, like marriage bans are being challenged under. It comes down to can the law be challenged and who has standing to do so. Same sex marriage bans can easily be challenged due to you can easily show that some group is being treated unequally by the law, due to the law or that it violates some other right specifically guaranteed by the US Constitution.


    States must only defend their laws when those laws are challenged and the person challenging them can show standing.
    I must disagree. A day shift worker can stop by a bar and enjoy a drink/game of pool on the way home from work, a swing shift worker to a much lesser extent and a night shift worker not at all. What was the state interest to make this be so?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #178
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And Sutton is wrong. The same sex couples have standing under the 14th Amendment because they are being treated differently by the laws based on their relative genders, the fact that their genders together do not constitute what others consider "marriage" eventhough their relative genders/sexes do not conflict legally with actual marriage laws.
    No, I disagree. Gender, Which Walker used to form his opinion, was fatally flawed, and unsupported by the finding of fact, even though he found it (I guess) sufficient to draw his conclusions. There are two genders, men and women, and both of them are subject to the same conditions regarding marriage. They are both equally limited and privileged with respect to marriage. A homosexual is a male or a female that is "attracted" to someone of the same gender, yes, but society has decided, in this case, that this arrangement is not suitable, or preferred in granting the marriage privilege? Opposite genders compliment each other in unequivocal material ways that benefit society, whereas homosexuals do not, at least not nearly in the same way.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #179
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The SCOTUS has recognized a right to a state recognizer marriage, many times.
    So says the echo chamber, yet despite the "many times" this has occurred, you all seem to have a difficult time producing evidence of a single case?

  10. #180
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I must disagree. A day shift worker can stop by a bar and enjoy a drink/game of pool on the way home from work, a swing shift worker to a much lesser extent and a night shift worker not at all. What was the state interest to make this be so?
    Then they should challenge those laws. OR perhaps the merchants should challenge the laws. The point still is that the fact that other laws exist that are stupid, pointless, or bad laws doesn't mean that we still shouldn't use the Constitution to strike down other laws that have been challenged and violate the US Constitution.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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