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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Very thorough, detailed constitutional analysis by the majority--I can't fault any of it. Weak dissent that's long on personal opinion and emotion, and short on law. The assertion at the end about the Framers' reason for creating the Supreme Court, for example, is wildly inaccurate and--understandably--not supported by not a single citation.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Take a look at the protected classes under employment discrimination. Many of them are far more questionable in terms of life choices (putting oneself into said class): race, color, religion, sex, national origin, pregnancy, citizenship, familial status, disability, veteran, genetics

    What is the basis for a hetero marriage right, if not someone they find attractive? Raising kids? Gays can do that too and many married hetero couples do not. But being gay is pretty clearly an established identity by this point, as affirmed in various anti discrimination laws, numerous studies, and common sense. If it wasn't a real identity, there wouldn't be this uproar about 'gay agenda' to begin with. If it's an identity, then yeah, inalienable rights come with it.

    Now i take equal protection to mean precisely what it says. You can't rule that interracial marriage bans violate equal protection but gender marriage bans do not. You can't decide infertile couples can marry but gay couples cannot.
    I am not a good person to argue the ED stuff with-I don't have much use for those laws on a federal level since I don't believe that the federal authority was legitimately delegated to the government but your point has some merit.

    I don't oppose gay marriage as I have noted. but its almost impossible to "fake" being black or Hispanic or pregnant



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I was under the impression that where SSM recognition is most "needed" is not for raising children but when something happens to one of the partners and that relationship is traumatically ended-such as the case where District Judge Tim Black (one of the very best in Ohio) ruled that a SS Couple that had one partner dying of ALS was deemed to be "married" to his partner so the trust of guy who was not dying would be met in that the family grave site was restricted to "spouses" of members of the family

    or when one gay partner is declared "brain dead" and the partner wants to make the call to pull the plug or donate the organs to those who need them

    rather than not having the family structure "belittled"
    To put it simply, you would not argue that a heterosexual couple wish to marry only because they are "attracted" to each other. And yet that gross simplification is deemed appropriate for same-sex couples. The majority wants to ignore that these are families with the same needs as families headed by heterosexual couples.

  4. #124
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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I was under the impression that where SSM recognition is most "needed" is not for raising children but when something happens to one of the partners and that relationship is traumatically ended-such as the case where District Judge Tim Black (one of the very best in Ohio) ruled that a SS Couple that had one partner dying of ALS was deemed to be "married" to his partner so the trust of guy who was not dying would be met in that the family grave site was restricted to "spouses" of members of the family

    or when one gay partner is declared "brain dead" and the partner wants to make the call to pull the plug or donate the organs to those who need them

    rather than not having the family structure "belittled"
    It's actually all very true, depending on individual circumstance. There was even a documentary made of a guy in his 20s who died suddenly on a trip overseas. The surviving partner couldn't even attend the funeral, thanks to the vindictive family. But CT is also right that their kids and the couple themselves will be deprived of a 'legitimate' family

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am not a good person to argue the ED stuff with-I don't have much use for those laws on a federal level since I don't believe that the federal authority was legitimately delegated to the government but your point has some merit.

    I don't oppose gay marriage as I have noted. but its almost impossible to "fake" being black or Hispanic or pregnant
    “Skin color is a benign non-behavioral characteristic. Sexual orientation is perhaps the most profound of human behavioral characteristics. Comparison of the two is a convenient but invalid argument.” -Colin Powell

    They are different but significant in their own ways.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    “Skin color is a benign non-behavioral characteristic. Sexual orientation is perhaps the most profound of human behavioral characteristics. Comparison of the two is a convenient but invalid argument.” -Colin Powell

    They are different but significant in their own ways.
    true, one is discriminating against actions and the other is discriminating against someone's intrinsic characteristics.



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    true, one is discriminating against actions and the other is discriminating against someone's intrinsic characteristics.
    What action does a person have to take to be gay or straight? Do I have to do anything specific to fall in love with someone of the same sex or opposite sex?

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What action does a person have to take to be gay or straight?
    the action is gay marriage. merely being gay is not the trigger to these laws



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the action is gay marriage. merely being gay is not the trigger to these laws
    How is it not?

    I have been with my partner for four years. It seems to me that my family, which was dictated by my sexual orientation, is prohibited from marriage.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-07-14 at 02:10 AM.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am not a good person to argue the ED stuff with-I don't have much use for those laws on a federal level since I don't believe that the federal authority was legitimately delegated to the government but your point has some merit.

    I don't oppose gay marriage as I have noted. but its almost impossible to "fake" being black or Hispanic or pregnant
    I understand not everyone believes 'protected class' should exist, but so long as it does, the lack of sexuality being among it is certainly noticed.

    "Faking" sexuality to what end? Enter a sham marriage or lie repeatedly to prying coworkers? Conjure a fake girlfriend and then kill her off when the sports team suspects something's up? It's not easy, actually incredibly stressful, and just caters to prejudice.

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