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Thread: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    this now creates a conflict with other circuits and pretty much guarantees a supreme court case.

    The U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeal, which upheld same-sex marriage bans in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, issued its decision three months after hearing same-sex marriage cases from all four states. In each of those states, federal judges had struck down same-sex marriage bans on constitutional grounds.
    I find it funny. It is a ruling most social conservatives cannot really get behind because the majority rejects the notion that same-sex couples cannot be as good as parents as opposite sex parents. In fact it does not really reject or take any position against same sex marriage, it simply argued a right for the people in states to define marriage through the political process as opposed through the courts. The only argument they could really drive was that polygamy is apparently the exact same thing as same-sex marriage and the judges could think of absolutely no differences between the two as far as Constitutional rationality. That part is rather embarrassing and intellectually weak. Do they really expect us to believe they were incapable of discerning any difference between polygamy and same-sex marriage?

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I find it funny. It is a ruling most social conservatives cannot really get behind because the majority rejects the notion that same-sex couples cannot be as good as parents as opposite sex parents. In fact it does not really reject or take any position against same sex marriage, it simply argued a right for the people in states to define marriage through the political process as opposed through the courts. The only argument they could really drive was that polygamy is apparently the exact same thing as same-sex marriage and the judges could think of absolutely no differences between the two as far as Constitutional rationality. That part is rather embarrassing and intellectually weak.
    while I support SSM I guess the issue is the conflict between majority rule and "rights". and some rights are obvious (and still get pissed upon by popular votes) and others are not



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    while I support SSM I guess the issue is the conflict between majority rule and "rights". and some rights are obvious (and still get pissed upon by popular votes) and others are not
    It seems to me the majority wanted to force a circuit break. It is hard for me to accept they would wait until two days after the election and issue a ruling with such lackluster reasoning. I am the biggest advocate for same-sex marriage on this forum and I could have written a better argument for same-sex marriage bans. This wreaks of political maneuvering. They wanted to force SCOTUS to take this up sooner rather than later.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It seems to me the majority wanted to force a circuit break. It is hard for me to accept they would wait until two days after the election and issue a ruling with such lackluster reasoning. I am the biggest advocate for same-sex marriage on this forum and I could have written a better argument for same-sex marriage bans. This wreaks of political maneuvering. They wanted to force SCOTUS to take this up sooner rather than later.
    an interesting theory



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    remind me your views on say popular gun control laws or progressive taxes like the death tax
    Using dead kids to ban guns:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There is absolutely no amount of legislation that could fix such type of mistake.

    To use this as argument for gun control is disgusting.
    On firearm regulation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I've grown to the belief that firearms and their use can be reasonably regulated while keeping in line with the constitution. Rights aren't unlimited. The various restrictions on the 1st amendment prove this.
    On doing away with the second amendment:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    .... I'd tell America that we should sit down and talk about this like sensible adults. America can't do whatever she wants. You know, because America is not even 250 years old yet. She can't do as she please. First she bans guns, then what? She'll start smoking weed, hanging out with North Korea and as we all know, it's all down hill from there. No, America can't do whatever she wants so we'll just all have an intervention if she ever decides to just up and ban the 2nd amendment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    First and second amendments? Why would they be repealed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I've addressed this phantom treaty over and over again. You have a right to bear arms. You don't have a right to go over to Rwanda and sell them to warlords. The treaty has absolutely nothing to do with the second amendment and everything to do with international exports, which is something the federal government can regulate.
    I do believe you've given me a couple of likes because of my position on taxes
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Using dead kids to ban guns:



    On firearm regulation:



    On doing away with the second amendment:







    I do believe you've given me a couple of likes because of my position on taxes
    you are in favor of progressive taxes but I liked the posts because your reasoning was not the bash the rich nonsense. I had not recalled much if anything as to guns. and the states have some power to limit time and use if firearms

    federal gun control is based on one of the biggest frauds ever imposed on the public by the federal government (and that includes all three branches



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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    an interesting theory
    Ask yourself whether you think someone as smart as Sutton is incapable of discerning differences between polygamy and same-sex marriage. Or maybe, he is savvy enough to recognize that SCOTUS is intentionally dragging its feet long enough on the issue by refusing to take up the issue so that same-sex marriage has been instituted in as many states as possible and become as accepted and commonplace as possible before they do. If he is a diehard federalist it would make sense he would want to force their hand as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    That doesn't bode well for the legal system then, but as someone said, 25/26 6th circuit cases overturned by SCOTUS (adding another soon) is worst in the country.

    Not a single reference to the constitution, that i've seen, in the majority ruling. This pathetic appeal to the masses (i guess let's make joe blow a federal judge!) that undermines the court's own authority ranks down there with scalia's dissent in lawrence v texas: "we ought not take part in the culture wars, many americans don't want homosexuals as neighbors"

    Yeah that's some wonderful constitutionally sound reasoning
    Having read your posts, who could doubt that your reasoning and knowledge of constitutional law have that dumbbell Scalia's beat, any day.

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are in favor of progressive taxes but I liked the posts because your reasoning was not the bash the rich nonsense.
    I think I've been pretty evolving on my view of taxes. I don't necessarily see them as an infringement of rights as they serve a net benefit in theory. Low taxes mean there are entire urban communities who have no access to clean water, food, electricity and transportation. No access to these things means even deeper levels of poverty. Ensuring that taxes are high enough for these essentials is a net benefit that doesn't infringe on anything other than a person's belief in what they're owed. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that taxes should be so high that a person is not able to benefit from their work.

    I had not recalled much if anything as to guns. and the states have some power to limit time and use if firearms

    federal gun control is based on one of the biggest frauds ever imposed on the public by the federal government (and that includes all three branches
    I just have a problem with the belief that a majority gets to outright restrict a benefit, privilege or right (such as marriage) using nothing more than religious belief. The same way I believe that even if the anti-gun side gained a majority, fear and aversion to guns would not be enough to place bans on the second amendment. That is mob tyranny any way you cut it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

    this now creates a conflict with other circuits and pretty much guarantees a supreme court case.

    The U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeal, which upheld same-sex marriage bans in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, issued its decision three months after hearing same-sex marriage cases from all four states. In each of those states, federal judges had struck down same-sex marriage bans on constitutional grounds.


    Decisions issued by this court were reversed 25 out of the 26 times that they were reviewed by the U.S. Supreme Court since Oct., 2008, a higher frequency than any appeals court.

    I predict that this ruling will suffer the same fate. SSM is coming nation-wide in the USA, wait and see.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being the same rights that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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