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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #81
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Of course i do!



    It is also a form of income for domestic tax payers! You will be troubled to show debt service or trade deficits for that matter relate to a net outflow.



    I understand finance. As interest rates rise, the PV of stock debt declines by definition. Given the relationship between output growth and inflation, a rise in interest rates would be a blessing for a government that has deficit growth < output growth. It seems i am talking way above your head.
    Want to thank you for talking well above my head and the heads of the average Americans out there who see record deficits, record spending, record budgets, record numbers of unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, and a debt service that is the fourth largest budget item. Also those 13% who supported Obama that no longer do. Wonder how that happened?

    you don't seem to understand human behavior at all because higher interest rates create higher debt service and that reality escapes you.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please tell me who having more spendable income in your paychecks affects economic activity? Isn't that what tax cuts do?
    Tax receipts were at record lows in 2008. It certainly didn't translate into greater economic activity. As stated, it is far more complicated than you make it out to be.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Want to thank you for talking well above my head and the heads of the average Americans out there who see record deficits, record spending, record budgets, record numbers of unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, and a debt service that is the fourth largest budget item. Also those 13% who supported Obama that no longer do. Wonder how that happened?

    you don't seem to understand human behavior at all because higher interest rates create higher debt service and that reality escapes you.
    More partisan foot stomping! You pretend to understand government finance. You pretend to understand growth economics. In reality, the only thing you truly understand is partisan hackery. Reason being, you are one of the best hacks this site has ever had!

    Congrats i guess?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #84
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    It makes absolutely no sense to believe that the economy would be where it is if government spending was curtailed for the past 5 years. Remember, government expenditure is a part of total output.
    No, what really makes no sense it to believe that money taken out of the economy to be spent by government has a better ROI than the money spent directly by the tax payers.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    With all things being the same over the last SIX years of the Great Recession, with McCain as President, Republican posters would be crowing over this booming economy. Especially the latest 3.5% GDP which Romney praised. Compare that to the negative GDP six years ago when McCain suspended his campaign .
    And there'd be democratic posters ripping it.

    Yes, there will be hyper partisan people that will fly off the handle less based on what's actually happening and more based on their party, thanks for enlightening us.

    What exactly is your point, other than attempting to broadly lump every Republican poster together in one stereotyped charicature?

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Did you forget about the millions of job losses?





    That is because you don't know how to look!



    I have not said anything partisan. Please try and stay relevant.



    Now you want to begin discussing JAR?

    Please try and stay relevant.

    As for the deficit, name for me the last President that had a 483 billion dollar deficit?
    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't forget at all but apparently you did forget population growth and the reality that you can create any numbers you want by picking selected moments in time. I prefer to look at the economy when the recession began and where it is now. I cannot see your 10 million jobs except comparing 2000 to the present. Is that really what you are trying to do? Then of course there is a cost to the taxpayers for those so called stagnant employment numbers but costs don't seem to affect you as money grows on trees.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Do you believe the sequester was a deficit buster?
    I honestly haven't looked at it too closely. My point was more that whether you feel like the sequester helped or harmed the deficit, the reality is that Obama deserves whatever part of the praise/blame you'd normally give a president for legislation enacted under his watch and signed by him.

    IE....if you think the sequester DID help with deficits then you shouldn't attempt to somehow take credit away from Obama for those deficits being cut, because ultimately it happened at least in part because of actions on his end.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    More partisan foot stomping! You pretend to understand government finance. You pretend to understand growth economics. In reality, the only thing you truly understand is partisan hackery. Reason being, you are one of the best hacks this site has ever had!

    Congrats i guess?
    Aw, yes, personal attacks which you are noted for. I am sorry to confuse you with actual data not trumped up projections and personal opinions. It is a fact that we have the same employment today as we had when the recession began and you are trumpeting 10 million jobs being created. That is a lie. Jobs created would be additional jobs from when the recession started. Obama took over a 10.6 trillion dollar debt that is now approaching 18 trillion dollars, you must be so proud. Obama fits the liberal mold of being arrogant and having zero leadership skills. Congratulations you supported the most incompetent person to ever hold the office

  9. #89
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, it runs counters to the propoganda and talking points put out by die hard Republicans.

    However, the OP of this thread wasn't propoganda and talking points of die hard republicans. It was propoganda and talking points of the die hard liberal persuation.

    As such, my post focused on discussing those.

    There's a large difference between saying that Republicans have over stated the economic harm that Obama would do or that he's not leading us into a "Fiscal Apocolypse" and putting forth implications that his fiscal actions to this point are something to be cheered and are somehow the polar opposite of the republican extreme.

    The reality is that Obama's economic policies have not been apocolyptic or country destroying, but have absolutely embraced VERY slow movement away from the artificially inflated highs of 2008. As well, it's clear he's taking a continued path forward that attempts to use the bottom levels of the fiscal crisis deficits as the new "normal" going forward. Which still places deficit levels a good $300 billion or more ABOVE the average deficit from 1987 - 2007.

    So sure, Obama isn't nearly as bad as some Republicans attempted to paint him as being. But neither is he some polar opposite that who's hacking away at the deficit with a machete and significantly moving us back where we were during more stable times. On the contrary, by and large he's been taking a slow, steady approach towards the floor of the Crisis (~$450 Billion deficit) and treating that inflated number as the new normal. While not as harsh as what Republican talking points were trying to paint him as it undoubtably isn't something to cheer about or laud in my opinion. And I think the harping on 2008 numbers, and acting as if information prior to the fiscal crisis just doesn't exist, is as laughably transparent propoganda as much of what Republicans put out.
    Here's the OP:

    OMG, we need to stop Obama from spending us into ruin!!

    Oh, wait.... the deficit is SHRINKING? Whodathunkit! I guess he's NOT the spender in chief as he's been labeled by the consistent and reliable deficit increasing Republicans.
    First, I noted a fact. The deficit is shrinking.

    Second, I noted that Republicans increase deficits when in power. We can have discuss what being in power means, as I believe that's when one party controls the White House... this applies even moreso when one party controls both the WH and Congress.

    So, you didn't actually address the OP. You veered off the OP to hit on details that are not addressed in my OP in an effort to siphon credit from Obama.

    IMO, Obama's avoiding the austerity policies of the Right Wing was exactly the medicine needed. An austerity that the Republican candidate wasn't going to do according to his proposed policies.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Here's the OP:


    First, I noted a fact. The deficit is shrinking.

    Second, I noted that Republicans increase deficits when in power. We can have discuss what being in power means, as I believe that's when one party controls the White House... this applies even moreso when one party controls both the WH and Congress.

    So, you didn't actually address the OP. You veered off the OP to hit on details that are not addressed in my OP in an effort to siphon credit from Obama.

    IMO, Obama's avoiding the austerity policies of the Right Wing was exactly the medicine needed. An austerity that the Republican candidate wasn't going to do according to his proposed policies.
    The question is big govt. vs limited govt. and which is better. You seem to want bigger govt. and more govt. spending. That says you don't really understand the economy and its components. We are a private sector economy that has to grow or businesses go bankrupt. All the govt. spending really does is create debt.

    You seem to ignore not only fiscal conditions but world conditions when a President is in office. Bush had a recession and 9/11 that cost the economy over a trillion dollars according to the GAO and still Bush never had debt exceeding our yearly GDP. You keep buying the liberal rhetoric and ignoring the liberal costs. You can continue to ignore my posts but I will continue to point out the proven facts.

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