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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Nit-picking but they're not all Americans. The survey doesn't ask about citizenship, only country of birth.

    Obama took office about halfway through the main jobs loss. It's complete speculation (on both sides) as to whether Obama's policies made things better or whether things got better despite him. But 147 million up from 138 million in just under 5 years? Slow, but clearly an improvement.
    Why would you measure success from the low point in the recession and not when the recession began? Also as has been pointed out a great number of jobs created are part time jobs for people looking for full time jobs. Seems to me that you have very low standards. Compare this to the Reagan term if you truly want to see the difference, numbers when the recession began would be a better measurement of success. Further it does seem that the electorate doesn't give Obama much credit these days

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Would it have been more of a success if we hadn't have replaced all those jobs we lost during the recession?



    If you blame Obama for the job losses and weak economy during the recovery from the recession, then it's fair enough to blame Bush for the recession since it started on his watch and the majority of it was on his watch. In reality, and in all fairness, I think you and I both know that presidents don't really cause every event that happens in the world, they just happen to be president when those events happen, so we attribute those events to them. It just happened on their watch.
    The recession ended in June 2009 and the stimulus was passed and signed in February 2009. You want to give Obama credit but no responsibility for the very poor recovery and the lies again about shovel ready jobs.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yep, that would be a liberal success. Guess those shovels never got to those shovel ready jobs as promised? Just another broken Obama promise? Obama took office with 142 million working Americans. Guess maybe the stimulus was sold to "stupid voters" as well. what do you think?
    Some did, some didn't. I agree that it was a leadership failure, at all levels, including states that refused to take the money, and local leaders who couldn't manage the projects.

    And while correlation doesn't prove causation, it's interesting to note that the recession officially ended just three months into the Obama presidency, and during the same month that the spendulous bill was signed into law. The job recovery started just a few months after that. So there is no way that you can prove that the stimulous bill didn't help, it obviously did. The only real question here is if it was the best way to stimulate our economy, and if it was worth the cost.

    No president, regardless of party, would have allowed the economic situation to continue going down the drain, without attempting some sort of stimulous. Maybe a different president could have done a better job, that's highly likely, but it's also possible that they could have done a worse job. I'm not particularly a fan of the spendulous bill, I think it was poorly constructed, and even more poorly implemented.
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    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Some did, some didn't. I agree that it was a leadership failure, at all levels, including states that refused to take the money, and local leaders who couldn't manage the projects.

    And while correlation doesn't prove causation, it's interesting to note that the recession officially ended just three months into the Obama presidency, and during the same month that the spendulous bill was signed into law. The job recovery started just a few months after that. So there is no way that you can prove that the stimulous bill didn't help, it obviously did. The only real question here is if it was the best way to stimulate our economy, and if it was worth the cost.

    No president, regardless of party, would have allowed the economic situation to continue going down the drain, without attempting some sort of stimulous. Maybe a different president could have done a better job, that's highly likely, but it's also possible that they could have done a worse job. I'm not particularly a fan of the spendulous bill, I think it was poorly constructed, and even more poorly implemented.
    Here is the problem that liberals don't want to address and in part why Obama's JAR is so low and why he got destroyed last Tuesday. The American electorate just doesn't doesn't see it your way. Between discouraged workers, under employed, and stagnant wages Obama is getting the credit he deserves.


    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
    Original Data Value

    Series Id: LNU05026645
    Not Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title: (Unadj) Not in Labor Force, Searched For Work and Available, Discouraged Reasons For Not Currently Looking
    Labor force status: Not in labor force
    Type of data: Number in thousands
    Age: 16 years and over
    Job desires/not in labor force: Want a job now
    Reasons not in labor force: Discouragement over job prospects (Persons who believe no job is available.)
    Years: 2004 to 2014

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
    2004 432 484 514 492 476 478 504 534 412 429 392 442 466
    2005 515 485 480 393 392 476 499 384 362 392 404 451 436
    2006 396 386 451 381 323 481 428 448 325 331 349 274 381
    2007 442 375 381 399 368 401 367 392 276 320 349 363 369
    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642 462
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929 778
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318 1173
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037 967 1096 945 989
    2012 1059 1006 865 968 830 821 852 844 802 813 979 1068 909
    2013 804 885 803 835 780 1027 988 866 852 815 762 917 861
    2014 837 755 698 783 697 676 741 775 698 770

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why would you measure success from the low point in the recession and not when the recession began?
    If you fell down 10 steps, and then walked up 6 of them, would you say you've just walked up 6 steps or that you walked up -4 steps? And when you got back to the top, would you say you hadn't walked up any steps at all?

    Also as has been pointed out a great number of jobs created are part time jobs for people looking for full time jobs.
    That number did go way up, but has leveled off since 2011. Hasn't really improved, but hasn't gotten worse.
    Seems to me that you have very low standards. Compare this to the Reagan term if you truly want to see the difference, numbers when the recession began would be a better measurement of success. Further it does seem that the electorate doesn't give Obama much credit these days
    Let's compare part time for economic reasons, couldn't find full time work.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    If you fell down 10 steps, and then walked up 6 of them, would you say you've just walked up 6 steps or that you walked up -4 steps? And when you got back to the top, would you say you hadn't walked up any steps at all?

    That number did go way up, but has leveled off since 2011. Hasn't really improved, but hasn't gotten worse.

    Let's compare part time for economic reasons, couldn't find full time work.
    I see nothing here that would indicate that the electorate didn't understand the Obama economic results. This has been a terrible recovery and since Obama was elected he lost 12% of his support from his own base going from 53% to 41% JAR. He lost 4 million votes in re-election and his arrogance and incompetence cost him the Congress last Tuesday. That seems to be reality

    By the way if I had fallen that many steps it wouldn't have taken me 7 years to get back up to the top

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Here is the problem that liberals don't want to address and in part why Obama's JAR is so low and why he got destroyed last Tuesday. The American electorate just doesn't doesn't see it your way. Between discouraged workers, under employed, and stagnant wages Obama is getting the credit he deserves.
    Obama wasn't on the ballot last Tuesday. Not at my voting place anyhow. If he was, he must have won, because I keep hearing that he's gonna be president for the next couple of years.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #498
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    According to liberals Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression so yes this recovery isn't enough to put people back to work and that makes it a disaster especially with over 7 trillion added to the debt and lost shovels for shovel ready jobs.
    and conservatives don't acknowledge that Obama inherited the worst recession since the great depression? Really?

    Is that an example of mutability of the past?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and conservatives don't acknowledge that Obama inherited the worst recession since the great depression? Really?
    They believe in parts of it. They believe it if they can criticize Obama for it, but not if it criticizes Bush or hurts the "Reagan is our savior" argument.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Obama wasn't on the ballot last Tuesday. Not at my voting place anyhow. If he was, he must have won, because I keep hearing that he's gonna be president for the next couple of years.
    Look, I know you are smarter than this, Obama said his policies were on the ballot last Tuesday.

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