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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, it runs counters to the propoganda and talking points put out by die hard Republicans.

    However, the OP of this thread wasn't propoganda and talking points of die hard republicans. It was propoganda and talking points of the die hard liberal persuation.

    As such, my post focused on discussing those.

    There's a large difference between saying that Republicans have over stated the economic harm that Obama would do or that he's not leading us into a "Fiscal Apocolypse" and putting forth implications that his fiscal actions to this point are something to be cheered and are somehow the polar opposite of the republican extreme.

    The reality is that Obama's economic policies have not been apocolyptic or country destroying, but have absolutely embraced VERY slow movement away from the artificially inflated highs of 2008. As well, it's clear he's taking a continued path forward that attempts to use the bottom levels of the fiscal crisis deficits as the new "normal" going forward. Which still places deficit levels a good $300 billion or more ABOVE the average deficit from 1987 - 2007.

    So sure, Obama isn't nearly as bad as some Republicans attempted to paint him as being. But neither is he some polar opposite that who's hacking away at the deficit with a machete and significantly moving us back where we were during more stable times. On the contrary, by and large he's been taking a slow, steady approach towards the floor of the Crisis (~$450 Billion deficit) and treating that inflated number as the new normal. While not as harsh as what Republican talking points were trying to paint him as it undoubtably isn't something to cheer about or laud in my opinion. And I think the harping on 2008 numbers, and acting as if information prior to the fiscal crisis just doesn't exist, is as laughably transparent propoganda as much of what Republicans put out.
    for the most part I agree with your comments but disagree with the statement that Obama isn't nearly as bad as some Republicans attempted to paint him. Obama's arrogance and inability to compromise along with very poor leadership skills has hurt this country greatly not only domestically but in foreign policy. Obama is a perfect example of why you never elect someone without leadership skills and based solely on rhetoric. Obama has done great damage in the world and to our economy long term. It next President is going to have a real mess to clean up, starting with an 18-20 trillion dollar debt and a world more dangerous than the one he inherited. Just my opinion

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    With all things being the same over the last SIX years of the Great Recession, with McCain as President, Republican posters would be crowing over this booming economy. Especially the latest 3.5% GDP which Romney praised. Compare that to the negative GDP six years ago when McCain suspended his campaign .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Regardless of how it came about (and it's hillarious that some on the right enjoy pointing out it was an "obama administration idea" when it suits them and then take credit for it when that is more advantageous), the reality is that the Sequester cuts came under Obama and were signed into law under Obama, so he deserves whatever credit you give to the Presidency for the deficits that occur under their watch. Ultimately, he was part of those cuts happening regardless of how you feel about those roles.
    It does seem that there is hypocrisy on both sides of this issue as Obama wants both the benefits plus placing blame. He cannot have it both ways either

    White House Admits (Third Time) President Obama Fibbed On Sequester - Forbes

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You think posting $18,000,000,000,000 means something. Go figure!
    The Left is always quick to point out how our defense budget is larger than the next 100 nations combined, but not when our debt is more than the next 5 galaxies combined. Go figure.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    With all things being the same over the last SIX years of the Great Recession, with McCain as President, Republican posters would be crowing over this booming economy. Especially the latest 3.5% GDP which Romney praised. Compare that to the negative GDP six years ago when McCain suspended his campaign .
    Just like an Obama supporter and liberal who knows exactly what McCain would have done while ignoring what Obama has actually done. Still waiting for exactly what Obama did to boost this economy and please tell me how proposing a 3.9 trillion dollar budget lowers the deficits?

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    How many threads have there been on this site where liberals proclaim that deficits don't matter...
    sigh

    No, it was actually Cheney who insisted that "deficits don't matter," when Bush 43-era policies erased the Clinton-era surplus.

    The typical Keynesian claim is: During a recession, it is more important to spend on stimulus with high multipliers (like infrastructure spending, or unemployment benefits) to kick-start the economy, than to worry about short-term deficits. The stimulus will get the economy back on track faster, which means you're limiting the amount of government revenues lost to the recession. In turn, the deficit will go down as the economy gets back on track.

    In addition, a fair amount of the government spending cuts would harm the economy. Cutting military will have some negative effects; but firing teachers and cops, or allowing infrastructure to continue to deteriorate, or putting off needed bridges, will all hurt the economy.

    So: In 2008 and 2009, it would have been a great idea to spend on infrastructure projects, rather than do tax cuts.
    1) We need to fix up bridges and roads anyway.
    2) That kind of work would rely heavily on the underutilized construction workers and resources, idled by the recession / real estate bubble burst.
    3) In the long run, you'll make up more by getting the economy back on track sooner, than you would if you tried to cut spending during the recession.

    Further, the right-leaning economists claimed that a debt-to-GDP ratio above 100% would harm an economy. It turns out this is not the case, as the paper in question used a flawed interpretation of the data. (Reinhart-Rogoff Economic Paper Draws Fire - WSJ)

    Despite the conservative caricature that the left just wants to tax and spend, the results we're seeing now are entirely consistent with what leftists and Keynesian-influenced economists have been saying for years.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And what facts would those be? Obama record budgets? Obama still with record deficits? Obama still with 20 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers? Obama still with the same number of Americans working than when the recession started in 2007?

    The issue is you cannot toot the Obama horn without providing the details. Still waiting and will continue to wait for what Obama did to lower the deficit to these still record levels??
    No matter how much you try to deny it, the economy has continued to grow under the current administration. The deficit has been reduced by roughly 2/3. The country has more wealth and produces more goods and services than any country in all of history.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    but not when our debt is more than the next 5 galaxies combined. Go figure.
    This is simply not true.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Just so it's clear. The majority of credit for deficit reduction should go to the much improved economy. On two fronts, it has boosted tax revenue while lowering automatic stabilization outlays. Giving any credit to the "Republican controlled House" goes way beyond using your imagination.
    Just so it's clear. You're okay with the OP giving the credit to President Obama, the guy who continues to want to spend, yet you're not okay with giving credit to the Republican House which effectively stopped him. Got it.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn - Bloomberg



    OMG, we need to stop Obama from spending us into ruin!!

    Oh, wait.... the deficit is SHRINKING? Whodathunkit! I guess he's NOT the spender in chief as he's been labeled by the consistent and reliable deficit increasing Republicans.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    To put that in perspective, if Obama wasn't spending us into ruin we would have a surplus right now.

    This deficit is also larger than the Bush deficit that prompted Obama to call deficits unpatriotic....
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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