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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #271
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The basic problem I have is that we have gone way too long for any kind of significant job gains and the reality is there are still far too many part time employees who want full time jobs, far too many discouraged workers, and an economy that isn't keeping up with population growth and personal demand....
    The economy is keeping up with personal demand and population growth. The proof is the fact that store shelves are pretty much full. I'm not aware of any product shortages right now.

    Anyhow, the lack of gains of good jobs is a symptom of mal-distribution of income. When income shifts away from the worker-consumer class to the rich, demand fails to expand as fast as it would otherwise, and fewer jobs are created.

    Just because Bill Gates makes a few extra bucks this year doesn't mean that he is going to consume (demand) any more, but if Average Joe makes a few extra bucks, he will definitely demand more. Businesses seek to meet demand, no more and no less, for better job growth, the consumer class has to have more money in their wallets.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #272
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Large sums of money acquired in a fairly short period of dime often aren't actually earned, it's just transfered from the production of others.
    Regardless of where the money comes from every dollar donated to someone poor that person gets a dollars worth of benefits, every dollar given to the govt. the benefits generated doesn't generate a dollars worth of benefits to the poor. Govt. overhead and expenses are extracted.

  3. #273
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    The economy is keeping up with personal demand and population growth. The proof is the fact that store shelves are pretty much full. I'm not aware of any product shortages right now.

    Anyhow, the lack of gains of good jobs is a symptom of mal-distribution of income. When income shifts away from the worker-consumer class to the rich, demand fails to expand as fast as it would otherwise, and fewer jobs are created.

    Just because Bill Gates makes a few extra bucks this year doesn't mean that he is going to consume (demand) any more, but if Average Joe makes a few extra bucks, he will definitely demand more. Businesses seek to meet demand, no more and no less, for better job growth, the consumer class has to have more money in their wallets.
    In a consumer driven economy, job growth comes from an increase in demand and when the people have more spendable income that demand goes up. Reagan created 17 million jobs, Before the Democrats took Control of the Congress Bush had created 9 million jobs all due to increased demand due to more spendable income thus tax cuts

  4. #274
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    In a consumer driven economy, job growth comes from an increase in demand and when the people have more spendable income that demand goes up.
    Absolutely. that's why I advocate for shifting taxation from the consumer class to the rich.

    Reagan created 17 million jobs, Before the Democrats took Control of the Congress Bush had created 9 million jobs all due to increased demand due to more spendable income thus tax cuts
    I have never understood why conservatives like to use Reagan's 17 million jobs as an example, when that is only about average. Carter "created" 11 million jobs in half the amount of time. Clinton "created" 22 million jobs. Bush is the only president in my lifetime who had a net loss of jobs during any term and fewer than 5 million total new jobs - even Obama has that beat.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  5. #275
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Regardless of where the money comes from every dollar donated to someone poor that person gets a dollars worth of benefits, every dollar given to the govt. the benefits generated doesn't generate a dollars worth of benefits to the poor. Govt. overhead and expenses are extracted.
    Every charitable organization has overhead. Even that overhead money isn't destroyed, it's spent back into the private sector economy, and results in jobs and demand.

    Anyhow, I'm not an advocate for means tested welfare, I believe we should end means tested welfare.

    I'm not even particularly an advocate for charity. If net after tax income was distributed in such a manner that it was suffient for familes that had full time workers to take care of themselves, then welfare wouldn't be needed. I believe in personal responsibility, if everyone took care of their selves first, their family second, their friends and coworkers and neighbors and churchmates third, then there would be no need for either welfare or organized charity.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #276
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Absolutely. that's why I advocate for shifting taxation from the consumer class to the rich.



    I have never understood why conservatives like to use Reagan's 17 million jobs as an example, when that is only about average. Carter "created" 11 million jobs in half the amount of time. Clinton "created" 22 million jobs. Bush is the only president in my lifetime who had a net loss of jobs during any term and fewer than 5 million total new jobs - even Obama has that beat.
    Guess I will never understand what it is about liberals who always buy what they are told by people that they want to believe. Please post for me any BLS data that shows Clinton creating 22 million jobs and Bush having a net job loss? I have posted the BLS charts over and over again and still they are ignored just like liberals ignore that Bush inherited a recession and Reagan inherited a double dip with Clinton inheriting a growing economy and no recession. Seems that history isn't one of your strong suits.

    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
    Original Data Value

    Series Id: LNS12000000
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title: (Seas) Employment Level
    Labor force status: Employed
    Type of data: Number in thousands
    Age: 16 years and over
    Years: 1980 to 2009

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    1980 99879 99995 99713 99233 98945 98682 98796 98824 99077 99317 99545 99634
    1981 99955 100191 100571 101056 101048 100298 100693 100689 100064 100378 100207 99645
    1982 99692 99762 99672 99576 100116 99543 99493 99633 99504 99215 99112 99032
    1983 99161 99089 99179 99560 99642 100633 101208 101608 102016 102039 102729 102996
    1984 103201 103824 103967 104336 105193 105591 105435 105163 105490 105638 105972 106223
    1985 106302 106555 106989 106936 106932 106505 106807 107095 107657 107847 108007 108216
    1986 108887 108480 108837 108952 109089 109576 109810 110015 110085 110273 110475 110728
    1987 110953 111257 111408 111794 112434 112246 112634 113057 112909 113282 113505 113793
    1988 114016 114227 114037 114650 114292 114927 115060 115282 115356 115638 116100 116104
    1989 116708 116776 117022 117097 117099 117418 117472 117655 117354 117581 117912 117830
    1990 119081 119059 119203 118852 119151 118983 118810 118802 118524 118536 118306 118241
    1991 117940 117755 117652 118109 117440 117639 117568 117484 117928 117800 117770 117466
    1992 117978 117753 118144 118426 118375 118419 118713 118826 118720 118628 118876 118997
    1993 119075 119275 119542 119474 120115 120290 120467 120856 120554 120823 121169 121464
    1994 121966 122086 121930 122290 122864 122634 122706 123342 123687 124112 124516 124721
    1995 124663 124928 124955 124945 124421 124522 124816 124852 125133 125388 125188 125088
    1996 125125 125639 125862 125994 126244 126602 126947 127172 127536 127890 127771 127860
    1997 128298 128298 128891 129143 129464 129412 129822 130010 130019 130179 130653 130679
    1998 130726 130807 130814 131209 131325 131244 131329 131390 131986 131999 132280 132602
    1999 133027 132856 132947 132955 133311 133378 133414 133591 133707 133993 134309 134523
    2000 136559 136598 136701 137270 136630 136940 136531 136662 136893 137088 137322 137614
    2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047
    2002 135701 136438 136177 136126 136539 136415 136413 136705 137302 137008 136521 136426
    2003 137417 137482 137434 137633 137544 137790 137474 137549 137609 137984 138424 138411
    2004 138472 138542 138453 138680 138852 139174 139556 139573 139487 139732 140231 140125
    2005 140245 140385 140654 141254 141609 141714 142026 142434 142401 142548 142499 142752
    2006 143150 143457 143741 143761 144089 144353 144202 144625 144815 145314 145534 145970
    2007 146028 146057 146320 145586 145903 146063 145905 145682 146244 145946 146595 146273
    2008 146378 146156 146086 146132 145908 145737 145532 145203 145076 144802 144100 143369
    2009 142152 141640 140707 140656 140248 140009 139901 139492 138818 138432 138659 138013
    Reagan 99 million to 116 million equal 17 million
    Clinton 117 million to 137 million equals 20 million
    GW Bush 137 million to 142 million equals 5 million

    Looks like all had net job gains to anyone looking at BLS numbers

  7. #277
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Every charitable organization has overhead. Even that overhead money isn't destroyed, it's spent back into the private sector economy, and results in jobs and demand.

    Anyhow, I'm not an advocate for means tested welfare, I believe we should end means tested welfare.

    I'm not even particularly an advocate for charity. If net after tax income was distributed in such a manner that it was suffient for familes that had full time workers to take care of themselves, then welfare wouldn't be needed. I believe in personal responsibility, if everyone took care of their selves first, their family second, their friends and coworkers and neighbors and churchmates third, then there would be no need for either welfare or organized charity.
    Every charitable organization doesn't have overhead especially if the charity is the individual giving to the actual poor. St. Vincent de Paul distributes food and there is no cut taken out of that food. When I give money to St. Vincent de Paul it goes directly to the individual 100% and goes for rent, electricity or other expenses. What you have bought is the liberal rhetoric and ignore the liberal results. We have more people dependent on the Federal Taxpayer today than at any time in history and that is a disaster except for the liberal elites who keep their jobs because of people like you

  8. #278
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Guess I will never understand what it is about liberals who always buy what they are told by people that they want to believe. Please post for me any BLS data that shows Clinton creating 22 million jobs and Bush having a net job loss? I have posted the BLS charts over and over again and still they are ignored just like liberals ignore that Bush inherited a recession and Reagan inherited a double dip with Clinton inheriting a growing economy and no recession. Seems that history isn't one of your strong suits.



    Reagan 99 million to 116 million equal 17 million
    Clinton 117 million to 137 million equals 20 million
    GW Bush 137 million to 142 million equals 5 million

    Looks like all had net job gains to anyone looking at BLS numbers
    Just for the record, I didn't claim that Bush had a net loss, I said that he had a net loss his first term. your numbers don't indicate that, I was repeating numbers off the top of my head as closely as possible, although I didn't get them perfect. Jobs created during U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now as far as me ignoring recessions, it's not like Obama didn't inherit one also.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #279
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Every charitable organization doesn't have overhead especially if the charity is the individual giving to the actual poor. St. Vincent de Paul distributes food and there is no cut taken out of that food. When I give money to St. Vincent de Paul it goes directly to the individual 100% and goes for rent, electricity or other expenses. What you have bought is the liberal rhetoric and ignore the liberal results. We have more people dependent on the Federal Taxpayer today than at any time in history and that is a disaster except for the liberal elites who keep their jobs because of people like you
    I'm not familiar with St. Vincent de Paul, but I still would think that they have some sort of overhead. It might be a third party paying that overhead (like a church), but overhead still exists.

    Anyhow, like I already said, I don't support government means tested welfare, so I really don't know what we are arguing about.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #280
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Just for the record, I didn't claim that Bush had a net loss, I said that he had a net loss his first term. your numbers don't indicate that, I was repeating numbers off the top of my head as closely as possible, although I didn't get them perfect. Jobs created during U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now as far as me ignoring recessions, it's not like Obama didn't inherit one also.
    That is why BLS issues the official numbers so the question is if BLS issues the official numbers why would anyone use another source?

    Yes, Obama inherited a recession, one that he was part of creating as a member of the Congress. The public voted on Tuesday telling the world what they think of the Obama recovery. Only a small minority still defend the indefensible and the incompetent President.

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