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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #191
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Obamabots are only a subset of the left just as TP folks are only a subset of the right. On any given issue, the vast majority are neither hard right nor hard left.
    Your initial comment did not seem to include such a reasonable distinction.

    This thread is trying to credit (some unnamed) Obama fiscal policy with a deficit reduction and claiming that (counter to public opinion) the deficit.(and resulting national debt) is now getting under control. One cannot continue spending at 20% of GDP while taxing at 17% of GDP (resulting in a deficit of only 3% of GDP) and hope to not run deficits, much less pay down the national debt.
    As far as "unnamed" policies, there are several, including (but not limited to) ending the bush* tax cuts, TARP and the auto bailout, ACA, etc

    And spending as a % of GDP has been declining though taxes as a % of GDP has also been declining.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    but the Congress can still pas spending measures that are not included in the budget. Most of the cost of the war in Iraq was paid for off budget, for example.
    Yep but when obama became president he put all of GW Bush's war spending BACK on the budget and then got lampooned by the right who then said he exploded spending. simply because he counted the dollars rather than hid it. slight OT rant there. But it did get back on budget. It has to be paid sooner or later and if it's hidden off the books like GW did... it comes to light eventually. Presidential war powers have gotten far too out of hand.
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    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  3. #193
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Yep but when obama became president he put all of GW Bush's war spending BACK on the budget and then got lampooned by the right who then said he exploded spending. simply because he counted the dollars rather than hid it. slight OT rant there. But it did get back on budget. It has to be paid sooner or later and if it's hidden off the books like GW did... it comes to light eventually. Presidential war powers have gotten far too out of hand.
    Iraq spending has not ever exploded, nor did it explode, spending, when it was put on budget. Its like 1% of total spending. The 2009 stimulus alone cost more than a decade of Iraq spending. On/Off budget doesnt even change total spending. It simply changes budgeted outlays.

    Total direct war on terror spending between 2001-2007 totaled about 700bn. The govt spent 16 trillion during that same time, of which 10 trillion was social spending.
    Last edited by jonny5; 11-05-14 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Yep but when obama became president he put all of GW Bush's war spending BACK on the budget and then got lampooned by the right who then said he exploded spending. simply because he counted the dollars rather than hid it. slight OT rant there. But it did get back on budget. It has to be paid sooner or later and if it's hidden off the books like GW did... it comes to light eventually. Presidential war powers have gotten far too out of hand.
    Bush's war spending are part of the debt that Obama inherited. Because it isn't on budget doesn't mean it isn't part of the yearly deficit, just like the Obama Afghanistan Supplemental's

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Can you cite any statement, or anything at all, to support this claim of ~450B being a "new normal"?
    If you'll follow along in this thread you'll have seen my posts indicating why I believe he seems to be taking that as the "new normal", as it's based on what appears to be a near $100 billion dollar increased for next year based on projections for the Presidents proposed budget. After multiple years of trending downwards, and repeated claims by Democrats that we're now out of the worst of the crisis thanks to Obama's politics, the only clear reason I could fathom for beginning to go back upwards in deficit totals is a belief that they've been dropped far enough.

    Granted, those projections are likely to change now over the coming months compared to what could reasonable be expected prior to the election since there's now a significantly different make up in the congress and a different seeming sentiment sent by the American People. Hopefully we'll actually continue to see a decrease, perhaps even a faster one, similar to the past few years. I'd be very happy to see such occur.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    But so what?
    Oh I'm sorry. Did I miss some kind of rule that only you can play indignant and claim to "simply pointing out" some "facts" while claiming you're not actually making any argument?

    I'm just playing your game Kush. I'm just pointing out a fact. Why does that bother you? As an american, you should be upset when America isn't doing its absolute best. Instead, you're okay with less than its best because it occured on the watch of a Democratic president.

    What? Don't like your little game of "I'm just going to claim facts, make clear implications, and then rail at people for not taking my subjective contextual basis for how I judge those facts as absolute truth" actually being used against you?

    "So what"?

    So there are other "facts" other than the ones you presented that one can look at and come to a different conclussion in regards to whether or not "America [is doing] well". That the measurement of what "doing well" is can vary depending on what arbitrary criteria you wish to use to define it.

    So what? So your facts aren't the only ones that exist, your reference point isn't the only one that is legitimate, and your implied assertions aren't magically absolute objective facts simply because you use facts to reach said conclussions.

    Now you want to argue on the basis of projections?
    Nope. Just stating facts. Just like you. I haven't "argued" anything, just like you haven't "given obama credit" for anything. I, just like you, were simply posting "facts". Interprit it as you wish. I'm simply pointing them out.

    May I echo you again....why does that bother you?

    If you expect me to treat your arguments based on a fraudulent method of debate where you just scream "FACTS FACTS FACTS" to try and distract people from the multitude of subjective factors and opinionated assertions you try to masquerade as facts as well as anything more than the dishonest tactic it is? Or that I'd react to them with anything better than your own tactics?

    My post was simply demonstrating "facts", just like yours was. Why does that bother you so.

  7. #197
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    but the Congress can still pas spending measures that are not included in the budget. Most of the cost of the war in Iraq was paid for off budget, for example.
    Just FYI, the Obama administration put the GWOT numbers back into the budget in the Historical Tables they released.
    Historical Tables | The White House

  8. #198
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    LOL... when do so called Conservative EVER reduce spending? When have they EVER reduced the deficit?!

    Sorry, but Conservative do not have a leg to stand on when discussing reducing the deficit or the debt. They've done neither when in power.
    You don't have to look back very far. GWB did it in 2005, then again in 2006, and once again in 2007.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You don't have to look back very far. GWB did it in 2005, then again in 2006, and once again in 2007.
    Forget it, I posted the data showing what the Republican President and Republican Congress did after taking over in the 2004 elections but it was totally ignored. Liberals always stick to the same talking points and ignore Treasury data. Deficits were reduced every year of their control

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5;1063946885...

    Total direct war on terror spending between 2001-2007 totaled about 700bn. ...

    That's pretty close to the spendulous bill, which was also spent over the course of a number of years, and Obama has been ferociously attacked about spending that much to save our economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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