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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #181
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    The binding constitutional thing about the budget is that the congress controls the purse strings. The president puts forth the budget saying, "this is how much money I need to run this government." It becomes constitutionally binding when the congress then votes and puts forth the money for the budget. That vote constitutionally puts the money in there.
    but the Congress can still pas spending measures that are not included in the budget. Most of the cost of the war in Iraq was paid for off budget, for example.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    but the Congress can still pas spending measures that are not included in the budget. Most of the cost of the war in Iraq was paid for off budget, for example.
    The budget itself is not constitutionally binding, only the appropriations bills which they pass.

  3. #183
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The budget itself is not constitutionally binding, only the appropriations bills which they pass.
    Correct.

    So, the Congress has the power to spend, or not to spend

    To spend or not to spend, that is the question.... and the answer, of course, is to spend.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Obamabot logic 101: If it is good news then Obama gets the (full?) credit, if it is bad news then Obama had no control over that and either Bush policy, the republicant congress critters or a conspiracy of racists, TP zealots and misogynists made it happen.
    Very hackish

    The fact is, the right endlessly whines about spending, deficits, and debt and now that they've won the senate, many here are under the delusion that spending will be cut. Meanwhile, there's a long history of spending increasing steadily over time regardless of who controls congress and under republican rule, both deficits and debt have increased faster (in both actual $$ and as a % of GDP) when the repubs are in the majority or have the White House.

    But I guess it's easier to hurl hackish claims about "Obamabots" than take a cold hard look at how the right has failed in their main objective when they gain power.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Correct.

    So, the Congress has the power to spend, or not to spend

    To spend or not to spend, that is the question.... and the answer, of course, is to spend.
    Of course, but so does the President (by congress). He is given money to enforce the laws. He doesnt HAVE to spend it all. Like, hes given X dollars for performing a function but has lattitude as to how much he can spend. For example, the last bill that was signed:


    (a) In General- There are hereby appropriated for fiscal year 2014, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for any period during which interim or full-year appropriations for fiscal year 2014 are not in effect--
    (1) such sums as are necessary to provide pay and allowances to members of the Armed Forces (as defined in section 101(a)(4) of title 10, United States Code), including reserve components thereof, who perform active service during such period;
    Thats a blank check. So blame congress for giving it, and President for using it.

  6. #186
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, it runs counters to the propoganda and talking points put out by die hard Republicans.

    However, the OP of this thread wasn't propoganda and talking points of die hard republicans. It was propoganda and talking points of the die hard liberal persuation.

    As such, my post focused on discussing those.

    There's a large difference between saying that Republicans have over stated the economic harm that Obama would do or that he's not leading us into a "Fiscal Apocolypse" and putting forth implications that his fiscal actions to this point are something to be cheered and are somehow the polar opposite of the republican extreme.

    The reality is that Obama's economic policies have not been apocolyptic or country destroying, but have absolutely embraced VERY slow movement away from the artificially inflated highs of 2008. As well, it's clear he's taking a continued path forward that attempts to use the bottom levels of the fiscal crisis deficits as the new "normal" going forward. Which still places deficit levels a good $300 billion or more ABOVE the average deficit from 1987 - 2007.

    So sure, Obama isn't nearly as bad as some Republicans attempted to paint him as being. But neither is he some polar opposite that who's hacking away at the deficit with a machete and significantly moving us back where we were during more stable times. On the contrary, by and large he's been taking a slow, steady approach towards the floor of the Crisis (~$450 Billion deficit) and treating that inflated number as the new normal. While not as harsh as what Republican talking points were trying to paint him as it undoubtably isn't something to cheer about or laud in my opinion. And I think the harping on 2008 numbers, and acting as if information prior to the fiscal crisis just doesn't exist, is as laughably transparent propoganda as much of what Republicans put out.
    While your tone is accurate, and Obama is not any sort of economic or fiscal "savior", I have no idea where you got this idea that anyone considers the Bush recession any sort of "new normal" or "floor" for deficits, spending or any other budgetary measure. I can't think of anything anyone has said that would lead to such a conclusion.

    Can you cite any statement, or anything at all, to support this claim of ~450B being a "new normal"?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #187
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Very hackish

    The fact is, the right endlessly whines about spending, deficits, and debt and now that they've won the senate, many here are under the delusion that spending will be cut. Meanwhile, there's a long history of spending increasing steadily over time regardless of who controls congress and under republican rule, both deficits and debt have increased faster (in both actual $$ and as a % of GDP) when the repubs are in the majority or have the White House.

    But I guess it's easier to hurl hackish claims about "Obamabots" than take a cold hard look at how the right has failed in their main objective when they gain power.
    What you fail to see is that "the right" is not represented by most republicants, just as "the left" is not represented by most demorats. I agree that no matter which party gets a slight edge among our congress critters it is not going to slow the growth of federal power/spending - at best some of it will be slightly redirected. Congress critters, of both parties, (must?) play like puppets of those with campaign cash and cooperate with their respective "party bosses" to get/remain included on the list of DNC/RNC (and related PACs) funding recipients.

    It makes money to take money just as it takes money to make money.

    The only thing growing faster than federal spending is the campaign cash needed to control that federal spending.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #188
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What you fail to see is that "the right" is not represented by most republicants, just as "the left" is not represented by most demorats. I agree that no matter which party gets a slight edge among our congress critters it is not going to slow the growth of federal power/spending - at best some of it will be slightly redirected. Congress critters, of both parties, (must?) play like puppets of those with campaign cash and cooperate with their respective "party bosses" to get/remain included on the list of DNC/RNC (and related PACs) funding recipients.

    It makes money to take money just as it takes money to make money.

    The only thing growing faster than federal spending is the campaign cash needed to control that federal spending.
    If you truly believe that first sentence, may I suggest you refrain from characterizing the left as "Obamabots"?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #189
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If you truly believe that first sentence, may I suggest you refrain from characterizing the left as "Obamabots"?
    Do you understand what the word Obamabot means? Tell me that most Obama supporters today in light of the economic results aren't Obamabots?

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If you truly believe that first sentence, may I suggest you refrain from characterizing the left as "Obamabots"?
    Obamabots are only a subset of the left just as TP folks are only a subset of the right. On any given issue, the vast majority are neither hard right nor hard left. This thread is trying to credit (some unnamed) Obama fiscal policy with a deficit reduction and claiming that (counter to public opinion) the deficit.(and resulting national debt) is now getting under control. One cannot continue spending at 20% of GDP while taxing at 17% of GDP (resulting in a deficit of only 3% of GDP) and hope to not run deficits, much less pay down the national debt.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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