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Thread: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

  1. #111
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Clinton's budget sensibility only started after the Republicans took over the House and Senate. That is a fact.

    It is also a fact that the worst spending binges happen when Democrats control both Houses of the Congress.

    In other words, losing the rubber stamp in the House was the best thing to happen to Obama fiscally.

    If the Senate flips to the Republicans today then expect a lot of bills going to the White House to further test Obama's resolve as a budget hawk.
    And yet Bush, who had full control of both Houses, increased the deficit. Reagan also increased the deficit.

    Why do Republicans not seem to be able to reduce the deficit when they have the White House? Is it their policies? What?

    Personally, I blame their policy of supply side economics. Until they release that fetish, they'll always increase the deficit.
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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    It must be nice to just say stuff without actually supporting it.

    When did a Republican run White House EVER reduce the deficit? I'm talking overall, for the entirety of their term.
    I'm sorry, do I need to support the statement that the US deficit decrease of the late 90s was under a Republican House and Senate?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    And yet Bush, who had full control of both Houses, increased the deficit. Reagan also increased the deficit.

    Why do Republicans not seem to be able to reduce the deficit when they have the White House? Is it their policies? What?

    Personally, I blame their policy of supply side economics. Until they release that fetish, they'll always increase the deficit.
    Reagan had a Democrat House and Senate

    Clinton's budget surpluses came under a Republican House and Senate

    Bush increased the debt by $6 trillion in 8 years, Obama increased the debt by $7 trillion and has 2 more years to pad his lead.

    Keep pretending that the President is the only person responsible for the budgets.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obama has destroyed that argument. It does seem that you have a very poor understanding of basic civics and who controls the economy. The lack of leadership by Obama is quite evident and yet people like you still cling to his rhetoric. Why is that? What is it about Obama that creates people like you who ignore actual results? You actually think Obama has implemented a pro growth economic policy? Can you explain to me why Obama got 53% of the vote in 2008 and that support today is 41%? Where did that 13% go and why?
    I'm tired of this false narrative. The Obama economy has far outstripped all other western economies is GDP growth and unemployment reduction since the Bush meltdown.
    The question should be why has Obama succeeded where other leaders have failed?


    The August 2013 gross domestic product report by the US Bureau of Economic Analysis drew little attention, but it contained a fairly remarkable piece of data: Inflation-adjusted GDP per capita in the United States hit a new all-time high in the second quarter of 2013, the first time a new high had been reached since 2007. Real consumer spending has hit a new high, too, and auto sales are at levels not seen since before the financial crisis. Millions of Americans are still searching for work and suffering financial hardship, but on average, by the broadest measures of economic performance, America’s Great Recession is over.

    Few nations across the Atlantic can say the same. The eurozone slipped back into recession in 2012 for the second time in four years, and remains in an economic state that can be accurately described as miserable. Real economic output among eurozone nations remains three percentage points below its 2008 peak. Eurozone unemployment sits near twelve percent in late 2013, higher than the US ever experienced at the peak of its recession. These problems are as deeply human as they are economic or political. Each percentage point rise in Europe’s unemployment rate has boosted its suicide rate by 0.79 percent, according to a study published in the medical journal the Lancet.
    Two-Speed Recovery: US vs. EU | World Affairs Journal


    CHART OF THE DAY: US Vs. UK Growth - Business Insider

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm sorry, do I need to support the statement that the US deficit decrease of the late 90s was under a Republican House and Senate?
    So was 6 of GW Bush's 8 years...your point is?

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Reagan had a Democrat House and Senate

    Clinton's budget surpluses came under a Republican House and Senate

    Bush increased the debt by $6 trillion in 8 years, Obama increased the debt by $7 trillion and has 2 more years to pad his lead.

    Keep pretending that the President is the only person responsible for the budgets.
    So you are pretending that the tax cuts, the Iraq war and the prescription drug benefit bill that he signed were not Bush's responsibility? Who was responsible then?

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    And yet Bush, who had full control of both Houses, increased the deficit. Reagan also increased the deficit.

    Why do Republicans not seem to be able to reduce the deficit when they have the White House? Is it their policies? What?

    Personally, I blame their policy of supply side economics. Until they release that fetish, they'll always increase the deficit.
    "Supply side" has nothing to do with it. Much of the US budget is entitlements that cant be touched and grow all by themselves. I don't think either party has much credibility when it comes to reducing debt, but Obamas $8 trillion hole makes him the undisputed champ. Unless you attribute that to 'supply side' as well.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So you are pretending that the tax cuts, the Iraq war and the prescription drug benefit bill that he signed were not Bush's responsibility? Who was responsible then?
    He put a $6 trillion tag on Bush, so he hung all those costs directly on him. Obama has an $8 trillion tag that the left is trying to pass the buck for and that just isnt going to work

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Nope, this is just a statistical parlor trick which assume that Spending A is more important than Spending B. It is a subjective graph presented as an objective analysis.
    If you say so.

    No, wait, you're wrong. What it does is show how much of the spending over the past few years is due to the recession and Bush 43 policies.

    - The costs of the two wars is not a parlor trick, and it's not subjective.
    - The costs of the recovery measures are not parlor tricks, and are not subjective.
    - Revenues lost to the recession, and the impacts of the Bush tax cuts, are estimates made by the CBO, which is non-partisan.

    And no, the inconvenience of these facts to your current opinions does not make them go away.


    What this graph does is simply place specific Bush era spending on the top of the pile to give the impression that it is more responsible than all the other layers of spending bellow it for the deficit.
    No, what it shows is how much of that deficit spending was due to deliberate choices enacted in the Bush 43 years, as well as the recession.

    Heck, even Dick Cheney publicly stated that 25% of the increase in the deficit was due to the Bush tax cuts.


    As an example of why this is bogus, the Democrats, as part of the selling of the PPACA, claimed that they could remove $500 billion from Medicare by cracking down on fraud and abuse and "fixing" Medicare.
    Unless they don't. It's mostly savings as a result of slowing down health care costs overall, something we're already seeing happen.

    And yes, the CBO does include these types of savings in their deficit projections. In fact, we're saving $23 billion more than the CBO projections.

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    Re: U.S. Deficit Decline to 2.8% of GDP Is Unprecedented Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Clinton reduced the deficit. Bush exploded the deficit. Both facts. If Republicans are such deficit hawks, why does this happen over and over again when they have the White House?
    Republican congresses reduced the deficit. Democratic congress exploded the deficits. Both facts. If Democrats are such deficit hawks, why does this happen over and over again when they have the Congress.

    Lets look at the congresses from 1989 (101st) and forward to demonstrate this.

    From 1989 to 1994, under full Democratic controll of congress, the deficit went from $152.6 to $203.2 Bil. An increase on the deficit of $50.5 Bil. Over that period of time the average deficit was $231.91 Bil.

    From 1995 to 2000, under full Republican controll of congress, the deficit went from $164 Bil to $-236.2 Bil. A decrease of $400.2 Bil. That's an average deficit over that period of time $-22.98 Bil.

    From 2001 to 2002, with Democratic controll of the Senate and Republican control of the House, the deficit when from $-128.2 Bil to $157.8 Bil. An increase of $286 Bil and an average deficit over that time of $14.76 Bil.

    From 2003 to 2006, with complete Republican control of congress, the deficit went from $377.6 Bil to $248.2 Bil. That's a decrease of $-129.4 Bil and an average of $339.2 per year

    From 2007 to 2010, with complete Democratic control of congress, the deficit went from $160.7 Bil to $1294.3 Bil. That's an increase of $1133.7 Bil and an average deficit of $831.6 per year.

    From 2011 to now, with Democratic control of the Senate and Republican control of the House, the deficit went from $1299.6 Bil to $483.4 Bil. That's a decrease of $-816.24 and an average deficit of $887.3

    So lets look at some of those facts.

    Democrats controlled all of congress twice in that time span. They increased deficits by $50.5 billion one time and $1133.7 billion the next.
    Republicans controled all of congress twice in that time span. They decreased deficits by $400.2 billion one time and $129.4 billion the next.

    The Republicans came after the Democrats once. The average deficit during their span was $254.9 billion less than the Democrats that preceeded them.
    The Democrats came after the Republicans once. The average deficit during their span was $492.4 billion more than the Republicans that preceeded them.

    The average deficit during the entire Republican controlled congresses over this time span was $121.9 billion.
    The average deficit during the entire Democratic controlled congresses over this time span was $471.8 billion

    The deficit decreased from the year before 5 times while congress was under full control by Democrats.
    The deficit decreased from the year before 8 times while congress was under full control by Republicans.

    Just as you keep claiming, all I'm doing is stating "facts". Feel free to point out anything about those numbers that isn't a "fact".

    And thus the glory of the statement that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Some people like to keep saying they are posting "facts" and acting like presenting said "facts" will make everyone forget that the opinion and the subjective choices they're using in relation to those facts aren't any less questionable simply because there's a "fact" attached to it. The worth of a lot of these facts you, I, and everyone else in this thread are posting is largely based on subjective choices each of us make to decide what we want to give more, or less, concern to.

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