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Thread: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    I don't care. I disagree.
    The Slate story reflects the exit polls. According to the exit polls 45% of voters said the President was not a factor, but 52% said that they voted either to express opposition to the President (33% of voters) or to express support for the President (19% of voters). Those who voted to express opposition supported Republicans by a 92%-6%. Those who voted to express support for the President supported Democrats by a 93%-6% margin. For Democrats, it was devastating that the cohort voting to express opposition to the President was about 70% larger than the cohort voting to express support for the President. To illustrate just how damaging that disparity was, the 45% of voters who said that the President was not a factor voted for the Democrats by a 55%-42% margin.

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Geez you can't possibly hate him that much! Don't you have any money in the stock market?
    I do through my 401k and the phoney money digitized to prop this President up scares me to death.
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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    The President acknowledges his policies were essentially on the ballot. In a number of states where the President took action (Like North Carolina and Maryland) you saw a candidate who polls were suggesting should win (in some cases win easily) end up losing. Every poll you look at has the President wildly unpopular. Every single exit poll and other type of poll shows voter disatisfaction with Obamacare, and every Republican that won in a battle ground race did so by at least partially, if not primarily, campaigning AGAINST Obamacare. Various aspects of the administrations mishandling of different issues or policies were routinely shown on exit polls as some of the top things that weighed on voters minds.

    Yet somehow, beyond all reason (which is a stalwart trait of hyper partisans), we have people banging the delusional propoganda drum that the Democrats lost becuase they weren't liberal enough and didn't embrace Obama enough.

    Based on what? There's PLENTY of evidence to point to as a means of supporting an assertion that Obama was a negative on the Democrats this time out. I accept the notion that said assertion may be wrong, but I've yet to see ANYONE put forward any kind of compelling argument to the contrary other than what amounts to "umm...umm.....PEOPLE LIKE OBAMA!" Please, provide some kind of hard evidence that would lend a reasonable and logical person whose not a rabid hyper partisan liberal to believe that the reason the Democrats lost this election was because they didn't embrace Obama ENOUGH?

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The President acknowledges his policies were essentially on the ballot. In a number of states where the President took action (Like North Carolina and Maryland) you saw a candidate who polls were suggesting should win (in some cases win easily) end up losing. Every poll you look at has the President wildly unpopular. Every single exit poll and other type of poll shows voter disatisfaction with Obamacare, and every Republican that won in a battle ground race did so by at least partially, if not primarily, campaigning AGAINST Obamacare. Various aspects of the administrations mishandling of different issues or policies were routinely shown on exit polls as some of the top things that weighed on voters minds.

    Yet somehow, beyond all reason (which is a stalwart trait of hyper partisans), we have people banging the delusional propoganda drum that the Democrats lost becuase they weren't liberal enough and didn't embrace Obama enough.

    Based on what? There's PLENTY of evidence to point to as a means of supporting an assertion that Obama was a negative on the Democrats this time out. I accept the notion that said assertion may be wrong, but I've yet to see ANYONE put forward any kind of compelling argument to the contrary other than what amounts to "umm...umm.....PEOPLE LIKE OBAMA!" Please, provide some kind of hard evidence that would lend a reasonable and logical person whose not a rabid hyper partisan liberal to believe that the reason the Democrats lost this election was because they didn't embrace Obama ENOUGH?
    Not only did he acknowledge that his policies were on the ballot...prior to the election, he emphatically stated that his policies were on the ballot.

    Here's one example. Barack Obama, in a speech at Northwestern University in October:

    President Obama said, “I am not on the ballot this fall. Michelle’s pretty happy about that. But make no mistake: These policies are on the ballot. Every single one of them.”

    President Obama Sees the Mid-Term Election Results Coming – And He’s Already Making Excuses
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Cruz tends to marginalize himself - he's too ego driven and self-important to ever be a leader and a person who can bring divergent forces together. That makes him dangerous to the Republicans moving forward and getting anything serious accomplished. Cruz isn't wrong on all or most of his policy positions - it's just his style and approach is incredibly off-putting and he just drives away people who might support him otherwise. If he had the temperament and style of a Rand Paul, as an example, with the same policy positions, he'd be far more effective.

    In my view, the Republicans have less than two years to make a statement that they can move government forward in a reasonable and adult manner and they don't have time to groom Cruz, even if he could be groomed, or have any of the stunts that have plagued them in the past few years. If they want to get the White House and retain both sides of the House they need to be serious. 2016 is going to be a year when a lot of Republicans in the Senate are up for reelection - they can't have a troubled 2 years now if they want to retain and perhaps build on those seats.
    So moderate his 'off-putting' and moderate his marginalization and have a powerful ally? Seems like a good strategy to me.
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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yet somehow, beyond all reason (which is a stalwart trait of hyper partisans), we have people banging the delusional propoganda drum that the Democrats lost becuase they weren't liberal enough and didn't embrace Obama enough.
    This seems to be a common phenomenon following electoral defeats. From the Republican side, one heard the argument that recent losses were due to the Party's having put up "RINOs." It's sometimes difficult in the immediate aftermath of an election to objectively and honestly try to understand what happened, especially when one has poured emotion, time, effort, and money into the race. There's an almost inherent impulse to rapidly retreat to familiar core principles (conservatism for the Republican Party or liberalism for the Democratic Party) in the wake of defeat. There is, at a minimum, disbelief or unwillingness to reexamine core assumptions e.g., the notion that some previously appealing principles might have lost some relevance.

    The reality is that the world is a changing place. Even very solid, good principles might grow less relevant as the world changes, just as successful business models can become unprofitable as industries evolve, substitutes emerge, customer preferences change, etc. For example, in the past, one might have argued that certain public investments were wasteful (low returns on investment for the public). Yet, in a high-tech, knowledge-intensive world in which innovation has become a more important factor for sustainable robust economic growth, that argument might be less relevant (returns on scientific research can be quite high). One might have argued that Defense spending offered a sizable savings opportunity. Yet, in a world where risks to U.S. interests have grown, that argument is far less relevant, as Defense spending needs to fit the national security environment not the other way around.

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So moderate his 'off-putting' and moderate his marginalization and have a powerful ally? Seems like a good strategy to me.
    If McConnell or somebody could take him aside and convince him to do so, yes he could be a powerful ally. Can anyone do it? Big question, no answer at this point. If he continues to just be a flame-thrower, he does more harm than good. I liken Cruz to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the left - guys their party loves to see skewer the opposition because of the entertainment value but guys they'd never trust to lead them anywhere.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The President acknowledges his policies were essentially on the ballot. In a number of states where the President took action (Like North Carolina and Maryland) you saw a candidate who polls were suggesting should win (in some cases win easily) end up losing. Every poll you look at has the President wildly unpopular. Every single exit poll and other type of poll shows voter disatisfaction with Obamacare, and every Republican that won in a battle ground race did so by at least partially, if not primarily, campaigning AGAINST Obamacare. Various aspects of the administrations mishandling of different issues or policies were routinely shown on exit polls as some of the top things that weighed on voters minds.

    Yet somehow, beyond all reason (which is a stalwart trait of hyper partisans), we have people banging the delusional propoganda drum that the Democrats lost becuase they weren't liberal enough and didn't embrace Obama enough.

    Based on what? There's PLENTY of evidence to point to as a means of supporting an assertion that Obama was a negative on the Democrats this time out. I accept the notion that said assertion may be wrong, but I've yet to see ANYONE put forward any kind of compelling argument to the contrary other than what amounts to "umm...umm.....PEOPLE LIKE OBAMA!" Please, provide some kind of hard evidence that would lend a reasonable and logical person whose not a rabid hyper partisan liberal to believe that the reason the Democrats lost this election was because they didn't embrace Obama ENOUGH?
    There can be no logical rationale for claiming those who lost didn't sufficiently embrace Obama and his policies. That's because those Democrats who lost were primarily in States that Obama carried in 2008, even though they were traditionally more conservative, and States that Obama lost to Romney in 2012 as the luster/novelty of voting for the first black President wore off and reality of his disastrous first term set in. Senate Democrats who got swept into Washington on the Obama wave, six years ago, got washed back out to sea this year.

    This is compounded by the fact that several States that are traditionally left leaning, such as Maryland and Massachusetts, elected Republican governors. Obama policies, embraced by these Democrats, were rejected even by left leaning electorates. Leading into the election, most pundits on the left were claiming that the Democrats would pick up a couple of governorships and yet they ended up losing a total of three, I think. That tells you as well that the left totally misread the mood of the electorate this time.

    This could be a very significant election moving forward if the Republicans who gained office and power don't blow it - not a sure thing.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread [W:517]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I do through my 401k and the phoney money digitized to prop this President up scares me to death.
    I think maybe you've been listening to too many "buy gold" ads on talk radio.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: The Mid-Terms Results Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If McConnell or somebody could take him aside and convince him to do so, yes he could be a powerful ally. Can anyone do it? Big question, no answer at this point. If he continues to just be a flame-thrower, he does more harm than good. I liken Cruz to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the left - guys their party loves to see skewer the opposition because of the entertainment value but guys they'd never trust to lead them anywhere.
    True and agreed. However, the flames that he throws seem to be far more factual based than Sharpton and Jackson, so I'd not equate them in that comparison.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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