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Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans[W:466]

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

I agree. Therefore I don't. By all means if you think:

Slavery had nothing to do with racism. -- apdst

Go ahead and attach your support to that sentiment here.

Slavery was all about getting free labor. You can understand that if you understand that there have always been slave-owners who shared the same race as their slaves. In fact that's continuing in the world today.

Using 'racism' as a catchall explanation for the historically unfair treatment of other human beings is probably the easiest way to go, but it's also the laziest because it demonstrates the lack of research. Slave is actually derived from the word Slav, and is centuries old.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Slavery was all about getting free labor. You can understand that if you understand that there have always been slave-owners who shared the same race as their slaves. In fact that's continuing in the world today.

Slavery in America (which is what we are talking about) was economic in its purpose and racists in its implementation. You can't say race had nothing to do with slavery in America. That would just be ridiculously obtuse. Having a slave class of another race allows for people to justify it by claiming that them being another race means that they aren't really human and can be treated as such. They were brought here for economic reasons and held in place by racial prejudices and laws wrapped around those racist prejudices.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Slavery in America (which is what we are talking about) was economic in its purpose and racists in its implementation. You can't say race had nothing to do with slavery in America.
Slavery is about getting free labor. That's it. Slavery in America was no different than slavery anywhere else. It was forcing people to work for free, or for their basic upkeep. It was also not a very good economic policy however, and you can discover more about why this was so if you read "Democracy in America", a book that should be studied in all schools.

That would just be ridiculously obtuse. Having a slave class of another race allows for people to justify it by claiming that them being another race means that they aren't really human and can be treated as such. They were brought here for economic reasons and held in place by racial prejudices and laws wrapped around those racist prejudices.
Certainly there were racist laws, and racist attitudes, and they come from all races, colors and religions. But slavery on its own only had one motive, and that was free labor. Indentured labor was very similar during that period and that was usually White on White.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Slavery is about getting free labor. That's it. Slavery in America was no different than slavery anywhere else. It was forcing people to work for free, or for their basic upkeep. It was also not a very good economic policy however, and you can discover more about why this was so if you read "Democracy in America", a book that should be studied in all schools.

Certainly there were racist laws, and racist attitudes, and they come from all races, colors and religions. But slavery on its own only had one motive, and that was free labor. Indentured labor was very similar during that period and that was usually White on White.

Ok... so you are going to take this route. lol

just for the record all I want to know is, do you stand with this comment...

Slavery had nothing to do with racism. -- apdst

Yes or no?
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Slavery in America (which is what we are talking about) was economic in its purpose and racists in its implementation. You can't say race had nothing to do with slavery in America. That would just be ridiculously obtuse. Having a slave class of another race allows for people to justify it by claiming that them being another race means that they aren't really human and can be treated as such. They were brought here for economic reasons and held in place by racial prejudices and laws wrapped around those racist prejudices.

What if it's a slave class of the same race? The first slave owner in N. America was black, after all.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

You said there needed to be agreement that racism is a problem. I agree--racism is a problem, and not just among whites but all races, including blacks. So what else is new? Like the common housefly, I doubt it will ever be eradicated, especially as long as we make race an issue in this country.

My point was that racism was a bigger problem for blacks decades ago when a black man could only take a leak in a restroom designated for "coloreds" but he still somehow managed to marry, put food on the table, go to church, and raise and educate a family. Now the bigger problem for blacks is the breakdown of the black family. Blacks need to look there first if they want to solve a problem like poverty, and they should stop using racism as a cop out for lack of material progress or attainment.


Okay. I agree with your point almost entirely. You are correct, there are a lot of us that blame "the white man" for all our failures. However, there is a large working class of blacks like myself who are saying stop blaming everything on "the white man". I grew up in the inner city, work my way through college and got a degree. I have a great career with a great family. So for the most part, I am doing pretty good for myself. However, I do run into racism every now and then. It pisses me off because I say to myself "I'm doing everything right and I still get discriminated against".

I think the first step to improve race relations is to get pass stereotypes on both side. Judge the individual for their actions
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

What if it's a slave class of the same race? The first slave owner in N. America was black, after all.

Like I said, it was economic in it's intention and racist in it's implementation. You can't sustain a slave class societally without justifying it through class differences of one manner or another... just to be able to say "they are slaves because they aren't us". In the US it was race based.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Some people in the GOP can't deal with the truth. But in the future the truth will deal with the GOP.

'What goes around, comes around." No one can stop time, and/or change.
Sorry but this just doesn't make any sense.

The Democrats have controlled at least 2 of the 3 elected branches of the federal government for the past 8 years and the reason for this most often cited is that "the GOP is out of touch". Well, if that has been the case for 8 years then what in the hell just happened last night? Did the GOP suddenly surpass the Democrats in this regard and become the compassionate ones?

The truth of the matter is that neither party really gives a **** about people except when it is politically expedient to do so and the pendulum swings each time one party fails to live up to their promises. The GOP had a 6 year run from 2000-2006. They ****ed it up and set the table for the Democrats from 2006-2014. Depending on what happens in 2016 we'll see where this thing goes from here but if history is any indicator it will be much more about one party screwing things up than it will be about the other party actually doing the right thing.

We don't vote FOR people anymore. We vote AGAINST... and this is exactly what happened last night.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Like I said, it was economic in it's intention and racist in it's implementation. You can't sustain a slave class societally without justifying it through class differences of one manner or another... just to be able to say "they are slaves because they aren't us". In the US it was race based.

Well, that's how the historically challenged see it, anyways.

The Irish Slave Trade
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Ok... so you are going to take this route. lol

just for the record all I want to know is, do you stand with this comment...

Slavery had nothing to do with racism. -- apdst

Yes or no?
It's rather pointless to respond if you don't read the post. The point of slavery, in America or elsewhere, is to get free labor. Here's a link that may better explain it.

Slavery is not about race, it is about controlling another human being. https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Well, that's how the historically challenged see it, anyways.

The Irish Slave Trade

You know that was bigotry too right? The Irish that came early HATED the Irish that came later and drew distinctive lines between them and these new Irish. Some were along religious lines and the like but it boils down to hating the impoverished. So it was more classism than racism in that case but bigotry nontheless. With the African slaves the bigotry was much easier to create and believe. Because they looked nothing like themselves.

Not to mention that the Irish were less like slaves and treated in some cases worse than slaves in that a slave had a monetary value to his owner. While the life of an Irish indentured servant did not. So these Irish immigrants were often hired to do the more dangerous work that a slave owner didn't want to risk losing a slave over in an eventual accident.

The article you linked to said right at the top what I've already said, you dehumanize a group of people so that you can use that difference between you and them to justify treating them poorly. So thanks for backing up my argument no matter how inadvertent it was.
 
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Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

It's rather pointless to respond if you don't read the post. The point of slavery, in America or elsewhere, is to get free labor. Here's a link that may better explain it.

Slavery is not about race, it is about controlling another human being. https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301

It's rather pointless to respond if you don't read my posts. I said slavery is about economics and implemented with racism. And being that we were talking about US slavery of course that is what I was referring to.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Yes, they were among the 'indentured servants' of the day, and were little different from any other slaves.

Indentured servants are not slaves. You own a slave. You hire an indentured servant. An indentured servant can be a citizen and is considered another human being. Slaves generally are not and are considered property.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

You know that was bigotry too right? The Irish that came early HATED the Irish that came later and drew distinctive lines between them and these new Irish. Some were along religious lines and the like but it boils down to hating the impoverished. So it was more classism than racism in that case but bigotry nontheless. With the African slaves the bigotry was much easier to create and believe. Because they looked nothing like themselves.

Not to mention that the Irish were less like slaves and treated in some cases worse than slaves in that a slave had a monetary value to his owner. While the life of an Irish indentured servant did not. So these Irish immigrants were often hired to do the more dangerous work that a slave owner didn't want to risk losing a slave over in an eventual accident.

The article you linked to said right at the top what I've already said, you dehumanize a group of people so that you can use that difference between you and them to justify treating them poorly. So thanks for backing up my argument no matter how inadvertent it was.

SO, it's racism except where it's not.

Whatever keeps your propaganda going, dude.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

SO, it's racism except where it's not.

Whatever keeps your propaganda going, dude.

I'd have done better to have said bigotry. but we were specifically referring to the US slave trade and not every slave trade that happened all over the world. Nice try though.

I mean if you agree with my sig I'd be more than happy to put your name in there with apdst in agreement if you like?

Just wondering why you are acting all butthurt about all this. I think I've been rather civil.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

I'd have done better to have said bigotry. but we were specifically referring to the US slave trade and not every slave trade that happened all over the world. Nice try though.

The Irish slave trade applied to North America...specifically Virginia. Nice try at evasion.

I mean if you agree with my sig I'd be more than happy to put your name in there with apdst in agreement if you like?

You can if you like. Slavery is about power....because they could.

Just wondering why you are acting all butthurt about all this. I think I've been rather civil.

I'm not butthurt, I dislike revisionism. And you are a revisionist.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

The Irish slave trade applied to North America...specifically Virginia. Nice try at evasion.

Indentured servants are not slaves. Nice try to you sir.

mac said:
You can if you like. Slavery is about power....because they could.

No, slavery was about economics of free labor.

mac said:
I'm not butthurt, I dislike revisionism. And you are a revisionist.

Apparently you dislike knowledge and call what you don't want to hear "revisionism."
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Indentured servants are not slaves. Nice try to you sir.

Indentured servants are slaves, regardless, the original irish slaves were slaves....not indentured servants. In the beginning, no-one bothered with the subterfuge.

No, slavery was about economics of free labor.

Taken advantage of by those powerful enough to.

Apparently you dislike knowledge and call what you don't want to hear "revisionism."

No, I dislike those that filter history through their own bias.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Indentured servants are slaves, regardless, the original irish slaves were slaves....not indentured servants. In the beginning, no-one bothered with the subterfuge.



Taken advantage of by those powerful enough to.



No, I dislike those that filter history through their own bias.

You should not be so down on yourself.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

You should not be so down on yourself.

Weak post is weak.

"Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Indentured servants are not slaves. You own a slave. You hire an indentured servant. An indentured servant can be a citizen and is considered another human being. Slaves generally are not and are considered property.
Please read the posts before you respond. I never said indentured servants were slaves.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

I'd have done better to have said bigotry. but we were specifically referring to the US slave trade and not every slave trade that happened all over the world. Nice try though.

I mean if you agree with my sig I'd be more than happy to put your name in there with apdst in agreement if you like?

Just wondering why you are acting all butthurt about all this. I think I've been rather civil.

A slave is a slave wherever they are. I don't know why you insist that slaves in America were different from any other slaves but in fact they weren't. The meaning of 'slave' and 'slavery' is the same everywhere.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

However, I do run into racism every now and then. It pisses me off because I say to myself "I'm doing everything right and I still get discriminated against".

Did you see the movie 42 by chance? If anyone had a right to get pissed off it was these black ballplayers. Talk about discrimination! In the movie, Jackie Robinson (played by Chadwick Robinson) comes off initially as a talented and yet cocky young baseball player. There's a notable scene in the movie in which Robinson and Branch Rickey (played by Harrison Ford), President and General Manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers, who wants Robinson for his talent but has reservations concerning his attitude, share the following exchange:

Jackie Robinson: You want a player who doesn't have the guts to fight back?

Branch Rickey: No. I want a player who's got the guts *not* to fight back.

Jackie Robinson: You give me a uniform, you give me a number on my back, I'll give you the guts.

Life isn't always fair. Sometimes talented people get short shrift due to circumstances beyond their control. But one thing I can say with certainty, even if it's small comfort to you, is class always wins over the small-minded. Jackie Robinson had class. I don't know anyone who doesn't admire and respect that.
 
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