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Thread: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    And I assume the referendum passed? I wonder what Victoria Nuland thinks of all that?
    The referendum did pass. Crimea is ~80% ethnic Russian. However, it was unconstitutional and conducted under occupation. In addition, the referendum's two choices guaranteed the same outcome, the only difference was in timescale.

    Globally, it set a bad precedent which contravenes the accepted modern concepts of sovereignty. Today, the rebels in eastern Ukraine are conducting an election which also violates the Ukrainian constitution and its laws, not to mention negotiated accords recently signed in Minsk by Ukraine, the rebels, and Russia. No surprise.... Russia is the only country that has said it will recognize the results.


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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Russia and Putin are going broke as we speak. They can't survive economically with oil prices this low. This is the reason for all the posturing. Putin 's back is against the wall.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Wouldn't that depend upon a number of factors?
    I don't know what you mean. What factors?

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    No, it did not.
    Didn't think so.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Didn't think so.
    That is being by the Kremlin right now, among other things.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The referendum did pass. Crimea is ~80% ethnic Russian. However, it was unconstitutional and conducted under occupation. In addition, the referendum's two choices guaranteed the same outcome, the only difference was in timescale.

    Globally, it set a bad precedent which contravenes the accepted modern concepts of sovereignty. Today, the rebels in eastern Ukraine are conducting an election which also violates the Ukrainian constitution and its laws, not to mention negotiated accords recently signed in Minsk by Ukraine, the rebels, and Russia. No surprise.... Russia is the only country that has said it will recognize the results.
    Bad precedent?

    It seems many modern governments set bad precedents all the time, eh?

    I think it's a bad precedent to nullify the Fourth Amendment or Habeas Corpus by illegitimate legislative actions, but that's just me.

    Thank you for being honest. I am sympathetic to the Russian actions in Crimea and Ukraine, as both are their backyards. Further, agreements made during the Reagan years by the US and NATO regarding encroachment and the placement of missiles have been violated willfully. We do NOT have the high moral ground in that controversy.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    I don't know what you mean. What factors?
    Factors such as historical perspective and the proximity of the land in question to the country doing the annexing. Factors such as the ethnic makeup of the populace involved.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    It seems many modern governments set bad precedents all the time, eh?
    Some do, but not all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Thank you for being honest.
    A reputation for fairness and honesty is a highly valued commodity in a venue such as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I am sympathetic to the Russian actions in Crimea and Ukraine, as both are their backyards.
    All countries have backyards, but I've never seen any border markers that welcomed invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Further, agreements made during the Reagan years by the US and NATO regarding encroachment and the placement of missiles have been violated willfully.
    Ukraine was not a party to any of the above. As a matter of fact, Ukraine relinquished her nuclear arsenal when the USSR dissolved in exchange for neutrality and honoring her sovereignty. The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Ukraine, the United States, Great Britain, and Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    We do NOT have the high moral ground in that controversy.
    Once again, Ukraine had no part in Reagan's machinations.


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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    With a weak sister of a President like this one in office, it would be surprising if our adversaries did not test this country's resolve. As soon as a boxer sees his opponent has no punch or seems to hesitate, he is going to feel he has less to fear, and start to come forward swinging.

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    Re: New Russian Boldness Revives a Cold War Tradition: Testing the Other Side

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    With a weak sister of a President like this one in office, it would be surprising if our adversaries did not test this country's resolve. As soon as a boxer sees his opponent has no punch or seems to hesitate, he is going to feel he has less to fear, and start to come forward swinging.
    Why do think he's weak? What do expect him to do short of going to war with Russia over a country that is not only divided in its loyalties but not of strategic importance to us.

    Did you think Bush was strong leader when it came to Russia? Bush didn't do squat when Georgia was invaded by Russia. At least Obama is hurting Russia in its wallet by the sanctions.

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