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Thread: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    If you're hiding something most of your life, for gain and/or protection, and only acknowledge it when it is safe to do so,... there is no indication of pride. Or you have a strange way of looking at pride. That's it, that's all there is. Bless your heart.
    As I said, and which you ignored: Did you consider that it's possible to feel pride and still comprehend that publicly stating that pride could be detrimental to your livelihood?

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I hide a detail of my life every day, because it is stigmatizing and can be a hinderance in how I am treated. That being said, on the same token, if given a magic pill to change myself, I would refuse. It's a large part of what makes me "me." That's what happens with hidden stigmatizations.
    Fair enough, and don't we all. But being true to oneself is not the same as pride in a particular feature of ourselves. I'm not questioning that he's gay, that he's never lied or hidden the fact, (since everyone kind of already knew), he hasn't been a hypocrite. .. all good things. All I'm questioning is the use of the word or the attempt to portray his actions a prideful or courageous. Those two don't fit with his life choice scenario. He chose to not come out til it was entirely safe to do so, after he reaped the rewards of being in the closet. There's no pride or courage in that scenario.
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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    As I said, and which you ignored: Did you consider that it's possible to feel pride and still comprehend that publicly stating that pride could be detrimental to your livelihood?
    Private pride is equal to no pride at all. Pride has to be public to be real.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Private pride is equal to no pride at all. Pride has to be public to be real.
    Damn... Well, just be careful when you decide to get off that horse, cause it's a really long damn fall.

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Please tell me you know who Alan Turing is.... please tell me you've escaped the influence of his work by getting a Blackberry...
    Never heard of him. I am just not a fad follower. I did not run to get an IPhone when others did.

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Fair enough, and don't we all. But being true to oneself is not the same as pride in a particular feature of ourselves. I'm not questioning that he's gay, that he's never lied or hidden the fact, (since everyone kind of already knew), he hasn't been a hypocrite. .. all good things. All I'm questioning is the use of the word or the attempt to portray his actions a prideful or courageous. Those two don't fit with his life choice scenario. He chose to not come out til it was entirely safe to do so, after he reaped the rewards of being in the closet. There's no pride or courage in that scenario.
    To an extent many people do hide things about themselves, but it's a certain number of things that society enormously targets that can be bad for the person. Being gay is one of them.

    However, we must understand that like certain athletes that have come out, there is a different calculus involved. In their circles, being openly gay is incredibly stigmatizing, while in society at large, it has become less so (though still highly stigmatizing). In the elite business world (or even in general), being openly gay is still something that coworkers or employers want kept private, without any hint that one might be gay showing up, because "that doesn't belong at work." Meanwhile everyone else can enjoy talking about their significant others, children and marriages. There can be courage in the cultured sense with this, just as there can be courage in the self for being able to accept themselves.

    In terms of being prideful, that's a concept of self and can happen at any time in one's life. I don't really think my pride should be measured by whether or not it has become easier for people to feel pride in who they are under this given circumstance. Had others been earlier trail-blazers? Yes. But people don't owe every waking moment, nor should measure their self-concept to those that came before.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Never heard of him. I am just not a fad follower. I did not run to get an IPhone when others did.
    I genuinely laughed.
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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    To an extent many people do hide things about themselves, but it's a certain number of things that society enormously targets that can be bad for the person. Being gay is one of them.

    However, we must understand that like certain athletes that have come out, there is a different calculus involved. In their circles, being openly gay is incredibly stigmatizing, while in society at large, it has become less so (though still highly stigmatizing). In the elite business world (or even in general), being openly gay is still something that coworkers or employers want kept private, without any hint that one might be gay showing up, because "that doesn't belong at work." Meanwhile everyone else can enjoy talking about their significant others, children and marriages. There can be courage in the cultured sense with this, just as there can be courage in the self for being able to accept themselves.

    In terms of being prideful, that's a concept of self and can happen at any time in one's life. I don't really think my pride should be measured by whether or not it has become easier for people to feel pride in who they are under this given circumstance. Had others been earlier trail-blazers? Yes. But people don't owe every waking moment, nor should measure their self-concept to those that came before.
    Well then we have different definitions of pride. To me you can't claim pride of something you kept in a closet until it was entirely safe not to, it is not courageous to own that thing from the closet after it's entirely safe to do so. That's a chicken-crap in my book, again particularly when compared to those that were in fact PROUD and COURAGEOUS decades ago.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I genuinely laughed.
    Whatever.

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    Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Well then we have different definitions of pride. To me you can't claim pride of something you kept in a closet until it was entirely safe not to, it is not courageous to own that thing from the closet after it's entirely safe to do so. That's a chicken-crap in my book, again particularly when compared to those that were in fact PROUD and COURAGEOUS decades ago.
    I'm not at all sure he "kept [it] in a closet." I have no idea how long his coworkers, friends, family and more have known about his homosexuality, but there's no evidence he's hidden that. And I surely don't think it's fair for a homosexual to either make an announcement through the press or have it assumed he's somehow ashamed of who he is. There are many fine reasons to maintain a certain level of personal privacy.

    As an example, I've been sober for 8+ years, and I'm proud of that, for many reasons. Everyone who matters to me knows this - including everyone I work with on a regular basis, but I don't broadcast that to strangers because when I do I become "Jasper the alcoholic" and it changes how people react to me in several ways that aren't productive because of ignorant stereotypes and biases. But that doesn't make my pride illegitimate.

    I'll just finish with it's unfair to hold everyone to the standard of the standard bearers of their era.

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