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Thread: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Considering the ****hole we were in just before Bush left office I'd say pretty damn good!
    I see. So, the Bush economy was good for longer than the Obama economy can be considered good...two years from now, results in Bush bad, Obama good.

    The Bush economy was good for roughly 7 of 8 years, while at best (assuming constant growth from now on) you could say that Obama's was good for two years.
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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There's no substance to the energy independence argument. International firms produce, refine and sell oil on the international market at international market prices. Even with more production and refining happening in the US, the supplies are still subject to the international economy, including price swings due to middle eastern oil production/sales. It doesn't matter where the oil is coming from: when there is a sharp drop in supply, oil prices will spike. So energy independence is impossible, for any country.
    The why is an increase in US oil production a major factor in this recent growth?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL....sure...your view of "Obama is stopping US oil production" is not an ideological argument.
    No. The fact that the Obama administration has sought to restrict and slow domestic energy production is history, not ideological.

    Similarly, your inability to accurately cite what was stated is unsurprising and partisan, but not ideological.

    Hope that helps.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    That's a good number. What exactly did Obama have to do with it though?
    Isn't it great that you can blame Obama for a bad economy and in the same breath deny Obama any credit when things improve?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    "The bad buck stops there, the good one doesn't".......or....."You didn't (build) earn that!"
    I get that the president gets the credit/blame for the economy but that doesn't mean it is deserved. I think if we were seeing these kinds of numbers early in Obamas term the link to his particular policies would be more direct. But economic growth occurring now when Obama hasn't had an economic initiative of any kind in several years is a bit more dubious.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The why is an increase in US oil production a major factor in this recent growth?
    Because domestic oil production falls under GDP. That isn't relevant to what I said so I don't really get your point.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Isn't it great that you can blame Obama for a bad economy and in the same breath deny Obama any credit when things improve?
    Except I didn't do that. I personally don't think the economy is all that bad. In fact, I thinks its quite good. It is not growing as rapidly as I think it should but the economy overall is quite strong. I give credit for that to the American free market system, not Obama.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There's no substance to the energy independence argument. International firms produce, refine and sell oil on the international market at international market prices. Even with more production and refining happening in the US, the supplies are still subject to the international economy, including price swings due to middle eastern oil production/sales. It doesn't matter where the oil is coming from: when there is a sharp drop in supply, oil prices will spike. So energy independence is impossible, for any country.
    From a national security perspective, you are incorrect - there are many benefits of energy independence, or, at least, dependence upon non-psychotic dictatorships. If you disagree, feel free to question Eastern Europe about their relations with Russia.

    From an economic standpoint, GDP is increased (note: title of the thread) when exports rise relative to imports. So reducing imports of oil does indeed increase GDP relative to baseline, especially in the context of rising domestic production.

    From a supply/demand standpoint, increasing supply also reduces gas prices relative to the baseline of where they would otherwise be, given demand.


    So...... in fact, it turns out, there is quite a lot of substance to the energy independence argument.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Actually, right now and for the past few years, the GOP controlled House has had more of an impact on US demand than the POTUS.
    the House can't do anything - you can't govern from one half of one branch of the three branches of the Federal Government. Furthermore, this President has overseen a vast expansion of the Executive into Legislative powers.

    Again, the US House has had more impact on US demand. An ideological view that ignores the global macro realities.
    which is A) false, B) does not speak to whether or not businesses were succeeding in spite of the Administration, and C) does not speak to the specific example of the Fracking industry, which is.

    Um, the Dick Cheney is notorious for his rejection of reducing oil consumption, and like you, wants to focus on supply.
    I'm on board with Dick then. I could care less about which form of energy we are consuming - only that it is plentiful, cheap, and safe.

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    re: U.S. Economy Up 3.5% in 3rd Quarter, Capping Best 6 Months in Over a Decade[W:75]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    From a national security perspective, you are incorrect - there are many benefits of energy independence, or, at least, dependence upon non-psychotic dictatorships. If you disagree, feel free to question Eastern Europe about their relations with Russia.
    But that isn't really true given the fact that should there be any supply shocks due to national security issues, the price of oil is still going to go up pretty significantly.

    From an economic standpoint, GDP is increased (note: title of the thread) when exports rise relative to imports. So reducing imports of oil does indeed increase GDP relative to baseline, especially in the context of rising domestic production.
    Yes but that isn't really relevant as I said earlier, because the price of oil is independent from where it is produced/refined.

    From a supply/demand standpoint, increasing supply also reduces gas prices relative to the baseline of where they would otherwise be, given demand.

    So...... in fact, it turns out, there is quite a lot of substance to the energy independence argument.
    Obviously an increase in the supply of oil, ceteris paribus, will reduce the price. However, now you're just stating truisms that aren't relevant to the fact that the US will always and forever be dependent on the international economy for its oil, as will every other country on earth.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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