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Thread: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Seriously??? This isn't about putting together a list of people who are going to get booted off the voting rolls, it's a list of potential problems. If they are legitimate, then there's no issue, if they aren't, then they should be booted off the voting rolls. There's no doubt that the algorithm being used needs some fine-tuning, but for something this important, common sense dictates that we should err on the side of finding too many, rather than too few.
    LOL, you mean like taking into account middle names, Jr. and Sr., and perhaps not including on a list of potential DOUBLE voters the 27% on that list classified by the list as inactive for not voting ONCE in recent elections? That kind of 'fine tuning'?

    In most circumstances we'd call call those "fatal flaws" to their approach, which normally requires "trash" and start over. What's incredible (obvious but shocking nonetheless) is no one is that stupid, so what's the purpose for adopting a process that will inevitably and obviously produce garbage output. That's the answer those defending this approach need to come up with.
    Last edited by JasperL; 10-30-14 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    So an admittedly flawed program is suppression?
    \
    When did CrossCheck (AKA Kobach) say the its "flawed"? I think its purposely flawed, to suppress votes.

    Unless they prove that there was a double vote, nothing happens.
    Not true. Over 40,000 have already been polled from the rolls in Virginia based off this list alone. You're telling me that they proved 40,000 + double voted?

    This program is designed to try to catch those who would commit voter fraud. Is there a problem with that?? It clearly needs some fine-tuning, but the basic idea is sound - would you agree??
    Way more than "fine tuning". More like a restart.


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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    So an admittedly flawed program is suppression? Unless they prove that there was a double vote, nothing happens. This program is designed to try to catch those who would commit voter fraud. Is there a problem with that?? It clearly needs some fine-tuning, but the basic idea is sound - would you agree??
    Not true. The states are using the list as a basis for making registered voters confirm their current address, which they do by sending out a postcard. So unless the person identified takes a positive step - gets, notices, fills out and sends in the post card, and it arrives and is processed - or otherwise confirms their registration, they are kicked off the rolls.

    Worse, according to the article, there is no follow up. No letter no nothing to notify the person they're no longer registered. So the person might have voted in the primary and show up in Nov. to find out he's not on the list.

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL, you mean like taking into account middle names, Jr. and Sr., and perhaps not including on a list of potential voters the 27% on that list classified by the list as inactive for not voting ONCE in recent elections? That kind of 'fine tuning'?

    In most circumstances we'd call call those "fatal flaws" to their approach, which normally requires "trash" and start over. What's incredible (obvious but shocking nonetheless) is no one is that stupid, so what's the purpose for adopting a process that will inevitably and obviously produce garbage output. That's the answer those defending this approach need to come up with.
    Would you rather have someone take an extra look at voting rolls that doesn't need to be made or would you rather just let anyone vote as many as times as they want to?? There's no doubt that this wasn't done well, but at least it's erring on the side of wasting time and resources and not on the side of allowing people to double-vote. You want to toss the whole mess, but that's not what is needed. Fix the problem and move on from there. Learn from the mistakes as you go and make the corrections needed, don't just dump the whole thing.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL, you mean like taking into account middle names, Jr. and Sr., and perhaps not including on a list of potential DOUBLE voters the 27% on that list classified by the list as inactive for not voting ONCE in recent elections? That kind of 'fine tuning'?

    In most circumstances we'd call call those "fatal flaws" to their approach, which normally requires "trash" and start over. What's incredible (obvious but shocking nonetheless) is no one is that stupid, so what's the purpose for adopting a process that will inevitably and obviously produce garbage output. That's the answer those defending this approach need to come up with.
    It seems to be the Democrats who are most unwilling to change the system and add greater integrity to the electoral system. Eric Holder is one. Truth Serum: Is there voter fraud in America? | On Air Videos | Fox News

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    \
    When did CrossCheck (AKA Kobach) say the its "flawed"? I think its purposely flawed, to suppress votes.


    Not true. Over 40,000 have already been polled from the rolls in Virginia based off this list alone. You're telling me that they proved 40,000 + double voted?



    Way more than "fine tuning". More like a restart.
    Virginia

    Three people were found to have been incorrectly pulled form the rolls and they have been reinstated. It's not like there were 38,000 people wrongly pulled from the rolls, there were three and they were fixed plus, if there are any others, they can still vote using a provisional ballot, so NO ONE got disenfranchised.

    As I said, they need to learn from their mistakes and fix them to avoid this kind of thing. Also, you'll note if you read the article linked above, that this was a normal procedure that is done on a regular basis and was upheld in court.
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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Virginia

    Three people were found to have been incorrectly pulled form the rolls and they have been reinstated. It's not like there were 38,000 people wrongly pulled from the rolls, there were three and they were fixed plus, if there are any others, they can still vote using a provisional ballot, so NO ONE got disenfranchised.

    As I said, they need to learn from their mistakes and fix them to avoid this kind of thing. Also, you'll note if you read the article linked above, that this was a normal procedure that is done on a regular basis and was upheld in court.
    "The purge comes a few months after the board said it would use several databases to find voters who were now ineligible to vote, either because they had been convicted of a felony or moved out of state. ".. Hmmm I wonder what database they are using? Oh yea the one named CrossCheck which is incredibly flawed.... Virginia election officials purging almost 40,000 voters - The Washington Post


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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Ok, let's forget Jim Crow. But the article explained and I've pointed out how states are using the list - to send postcards to those on the list that require them to verify their addresses. It's guaranteed that a large number will fail that step, and because of known reasons, MORE likely that poor people will than those not poor, chiefly they're more likely to rent and change addresses.
    Point me to one person who has been disenfranchised because of this list. And is the "because of known reasons" a Democrat dog whistle or something? People too dumb to return a post card?

    That's fine, but the FBI guy with a list of 192,000 can't find even ONE person to charge with double voting. Not one. That's all you really need to know about the accuracy of the list.
    Well yay! But wait. He has been on the job 5 months with 192,000 entries to followup on? Hmmm... how many people are under him in the investigation? How many of the 192,000 have been cleared? Since these are interstate registration issues how much jurisdiction does a contractor in NC have in, say, GA? Do you know? How many should he have caught in 5 months?

    And while they have found no evidence of voter fraud, guess what? Al Jeez has also found no evidence of disenfranchisement. All Al Jeez does is talk about "potential", and funny how when they come to the potential dangers of the list they don't actually quote anyone but the goblins in the head of the author. If Crosscheck determines that the double entry is because someone moved out of state and they remove them fro the state register am I suppose to scream voter suppression?

    There really isn't - point me to a single person charged with double voting caught from this list? I haven't seen any, and NC hired a person to do just that who in 5 months found NONE, but maybe there are 20, in all states, and the list is millions long.

    Why is this story so familiar - lots of allegations of possible fraud, but all the evidence indicates the problem is actually trivial, at best.
    You really have a problem with cleaning up election rolls, don't you?

    The approach really isn't defensible when they ignore SSN, ignore middle names, and ignore Sr, and Jr. It appears they ignore birthdates and only need a match of first and last name, with a quarter of the suspected double voters classified as inactive because they haven't voted at all recently. It's just a sloppy, laughable approach, so the question is why would a state take that kind of guaranteed to be terrible approach? Are they that incompetent? It's either that or it's a way to legally kick mostly democrats off the registration lists.
    You are making things up at this point. The Crosscheck creates a list of potential double votes that then must be investigate by the states. The states then weed out the entries that aren't voter fraud and clarify the residence of others that appear to have duplicate entries. This is how you update databases.

    Your assumptions about what might happen is pointless hand waving.
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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "The purge comes a few months after the board said it would use several databases to find voters who were now ineligible to vote, either because they had been convicted of a felony or moved out of state. ".. Hmmm I wonder what database they are using? Oh yea the one named CrossCheck which is incredibly flawed.... Virginia election officials purging almost 40,000 voters - The Washington Post
    38,000 were -purged and 37,997 of them were legitimate and the other three were reinstated and if there were any others who were erroneously purged, they can vote using a provisional ballot. Walk in integrity and show the whole story, not just the parts spoon fed to you by Al Jazeera.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    38,000 were -purged and 37,997 of them were legitimate and the other three were reinstated and if there were any others who were erroneously purged, they can vote using a provisional ballot. Walk in integrity and show the whole story, not just the parts spoon fed to you by Al Jazeera.
    Howd they get that number? Oh yea using a highly flawed database...


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