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Thread: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    right? Technically it's in the school cafeteria but it's still connected to the church.
    Outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Why would it be a stolen identity - the two men had different names (John Paul, and John R.). Per the article, Twenty-three percent of the names — nearly 1.6 million of them — lack matching middle names.
    That is the funny thing. Al Jeez and the all bold hand wavy crowd here are making the same unsubstantiated leap from a list of "potential double votes" to a guaranteed disenfranchisement of 1.6 million voters.

    There are a number a real problems with that leap:

    1) This is a list of POTENTIAL double voters, not a list of people whose franchise has been revoked. A Jeez has simply spun the story in a way that has liberal panties in a wad by throwing around idiotic comparisons to Jim Crow (*coughhistoricallyaDemocratpolicycough*)

    2) A double vote is not inherently voting twice for the same party candidate. Double voting can also be an identity theft where the bogus vote is for the opposite party, nullifying the vote. In a presidential race the two votes would have cancelling effects.

    3) The thing people fail to realize is that False positives that lead to revocation and true positives that are not corrected on that list both end in the same result: disenfranchisement. So while there is a POTENTIAL that some in the 20% could lose their right to vote erroneously there is also the POTENTIAL that there are people in the 80% who have already had their franchise nullified.

    4) If there is actual voting fraud going on, and people really are getting their identities stolen, then any corrections of the voting record would also inordinately benefit minority communities.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is the funny thing. Al Jeez and the all bold hand wavy crowd here are making the same unsubstantiated leap from a list of "potential double votes" to a guaranteed disenfranchisement of 1.6 million voters.

    There are a number a real problems with that leap:

    1) This is a list of POTENTIAL double voters, not a list of people whose franchise has been revoked. A Jeez has simply spun the story in a way that has liberal panties in a wad by throwing around idiotic comparisons to Jim Crow (*coughhistoricallyaDemocratpolicycough*)
    Ok, let's forget Jim Crow. But the article explained and I've pointed out how states are using the list - to send postcards to those on the list that require them to verify their addresses. It's guaranteed that a large number will fail that step, and because of known reasons, MORE likely that poor people will than those not poor, chiefly they're more likely to rent and change addresses.

    2) A double vote is not inherently voting twice for the same party candidate. Double voting can also be an identity theft where the bogus vote is for the opposite party, nullifying the vote. In a presidential race the two votes would have cancelling effects.
    That's fine, but the FBI guy with a list of 192,000 can't find even ONE person to charge with double voting. Not one. That's all you really need to know about the accuracy of the list.

    3) The thing people fail to realize is that False positives that lead to revocation and true positives that are not corrected on that list both end in the same result: disenfranchisement. So while there is a POTENTIAL that some in the 20% could lose their right to vote erroneously there is also the POTENTIAL that there are people in the 80% who have already had their franchise nullified.
    There really isn't - point me to a single person charged with double voting caught from this list? I haven't seen any, and NC hired a person to do just that who in 5 months found NONE, but maybe there are 20, in all states, and the list is millions long.

    Why is this story so familiar - lots of allegations of possible fraud, but all the evidence indicates the problem is actually trivial, at best.

    4) If there is actual voting fraud going on, and people really are getting their identities stolen, then any corrections of the voting record would also inordinately benefit minority communities.
    The approach really isn't defensible when they ignore SSN, ignore middle names, and ignore Sr, and Jr. It appears they ignore birthdates and only need a match of first and last name, with a quarter of the suspected double voters classified as inactive because they haven't voted at all recently. It's just a sloppy, laughable approach, so the question is why would a state take that kind of guaranteed to be terrible approach? Are they that incompetent? It's either that or it's a way to legally kick mostly democrats off the registration lists.

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Great article but this is the biggest thing that stuck out to me:

    Read more @: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    This is a great article. Too bad none of this is actually a criminal offense. The GOP loves these actions, because its simple, they are taking away people who will not vote for them. The GOP is no friend of democracy.
    What a load of crap. I can't believe that you're complaining about removing double votes by someone. Voting twice IS illegal ya know. Or do you advocate for not following the law?
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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What a load of crap. I can't believe that you're complaining about removing double votes by someone. Voting twice IS illegal ya know. Or do you advocate for not following the law?
    As the article proves many of these "double voters" havent even voted once. And the way they collect data to "verify" double voters is incredibly flawed.


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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Great article but this is the biggest thing that stuck out to me:

    Read more @: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    This is a great article. Too bad none of this is actually a criminal offense. The GOP loves these actions, because its simple, they are taking away people who will not vote for them. The GOP is no friend of democracy.
    Seriously??? This isn't about putting together a list of people who are going to get booted off the voting rolls, it's a list of potential problems. If they are legitimate, then there's no issue, if they aren't, then they should be booted off the voting rolls. There's no doubt that the algorithm being used needs some fine-tuning, but for something this important, common sense dictates that we should err on the side of finding too many, rather than too few.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Hmmm: "the actual lists show that not only are middle names commonly mismatched and suffix discrepancies ignored, even birthdates don’t seem to have been taken into account. Moreover, Crosscheck deliberately ignores Social Security mismatches, in the few instances when the numbers are even collected. The Crosscheck instructions for county election officers state, “Social Security numbers are included for verification; the numbers might or might not match.”

    Twenty-three percent of the names — nearly 1.6 million of them — lack matching middle names. “Jr.” and “Sr.” are ignored, potentially disenfranchising two generations in the same family. And, notably, of those who may have voted twice in the 2012 presidential election, 27 percent were listed as “inactive” voters, meaning that almost 1.9 million may not even have voted once in that race, according to Crosscheck’s own records."
    So how does this equate to "Jim Crow laws"?
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "The three states’ lists are heavily weighted with names such as Jackson, Garcia, Patel and Kim — ones common among minorities, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Indeed, fully 1 in 7 African-Americans in those 27 states, plus the state of Washington (which enrolled in Crosscheck but has decided not to utilize the results), are listed as under suspicion of having voted twice. This also applies to 1 in 8 Asian-Americans and 1 in 8 Hispanic voters. White voters too — 1 in 11 — are at risk of having their names scrubbed from the voter rolls, though not as vulnerable as minorities...

    Minority last names are overrepresented in Crosscheck lists
    (followed by graph in artcile)"

    --But man. You must be a speed reader! Did you even read the article?
    With smaller root populations, minorities will tend towards common surnames. That's a matter of statistics and demographics, not racism. Oops... I just offered up facts and science, sorry about that, TDS...
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    So how does this equate to "Jim Crow laws"?
    I think its suppression, but i dont think its the moral equivalent to Jim Crow Laws. Title is dramaitc.


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    Re: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think its suppression, but i dont think its the moral equivalent to Jim Crow Laws. Title is dramaitc.
    So an admittedly flawed program is suppression? Unless they prove that there was a double vote, nothing happens. This program is designed to try to catch those who would commit voter fraud. Is there a problem with that?? It clearly needs some fine-tuning, but the basic idea is sound - would you agree??
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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