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Thread: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC [W:110]

  1. #181
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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    It is most important that everyone gets the word that Ebola is lose in the Nations largest, most travel intensive city.

    -
    LOL

    Do you think anyone has missed it on the news?

    *has image of Ebola running thru the streets like the ghouls in Ghostbusters*
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, despite all the "you can only catch it from caring for someone who is symptomatic and you come into contact with their blood, vomit, or feces" is being really put to the test here.

    It would appear the cameraman either touched something that a patient had touched and contracted Ebola indirectly, or, something blew the disease into his face.

    It's really difficult for the country at large to believe all the "medical information" when there appears to be exceptions.

    It's the exceptions that people remember and don't want to succumb to.

    There are indeed intelligent real concerns here in this matter.

    Best for all to be sensitive to them.


    Heya OG what do you think of the test with the primates.....then the Canadian Test from Pigs to primates? Why do they avoid what those researchers are saying?

    Why do you think those mocking this issue have nothing to say about the International Study on the Incubation Period?

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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you don't believe that is happening? Or a possibility?
    Did you see what I responded to?

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    For those who are interested, below are the World Health Organization's recommendations for dealing with the current Ebola outbreak:

    Recommendations for States with intense Ebola transmission (Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone)

    Exit screening in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone remains critical for reducing the exportation of Ebola cases. States should maintain and reinforce high-quality exit screening of all persons at international airports, seaport, and major land crossings, for unexplained febrile illness consistent with potential Ebola infection. The exit screening should consist of, at a minimum, a questionnaire, a temperature measurement and, if fever is discovered, an assessment of the risk that the fever is caused by Ebola virus disease (EVD). States should collect data from their exit screening processes, monitor their results, and share these with WHO on a regular basis and in a timely fashion. This will increase public confidence and provide important information to other States.

    WHO and partners should provide additional support needed by States to further strengthen exit screening processes in a sustainable way.

    Recommendations for all States

    The Committee reiterated its recommendation that there should be no general ban on international travel or trade. A general travel ban is likely to cause economic hardship, and could consequently increase the uncontrolled migration of people from affected countries, raising the risk of international spread of Ebola. The Committee emphasized the importance of normalizing air travel and the movement of ships, including the handling of cargo and goods, to and from the affected areas, to reduce the isolation and economic hardship of the affected countries. Any necessary medical treatment should be available ashore for seafarers and passengers.

    Previous recommendations regarding the travel of EVD cases and contacts should continue to be implemented.

    A number of States have recently introduced entry screening measures. WHO encourages countries implementing such measures to share their experiences and lessons learned. Entry screening may have a limited effect in reducing international spread when added to exit screening, and its advantages and disadvantages should be carefully considered.

    If entry screening is implemented, States should take into account the following considerations: it offers an opportunity for individual sensitization, but the resource demands may be significant, even if screening is targeted; and management systems must be in place to care for travellers and suspected cases in compliance with International Health Regulations (IHR) requirements.

    A number of States without Ebola transmission have decided to or are considering cancelling international meetings and mass gatherings. Although the Committee does not recommend such cancellations, it recognizes that these are complex decisions that must be decided on a case-by-case basis. The Committee encourages States to use a risk-based approach to make these decisions. WHO has issued advice for countries hosting international meetings or mass gatherings, and will continue to provide guidance and support on this issue. The Committee agreed that there should not be a general ban on participation of competitors or delegations from countries with transmission of Ebola wishing to attend international events and mass gatherings but that the decision of participation must be made on a case by case basis by the hosting country. The temporary recommendations relating to travel should apply; additional health monitoring may be requested.

    All countries should strengthen education and communication efforts to combat stigma, disproportionate fear, and inappropriate measures and reactions associated with Ebola. Such efforts may also encourage self-reporting and early presentation for diagnosis and care.

    The Committee emphasized the importance of continued support by WHO and other national and international partners towards the effective implementation and monitoring of these recommendations.


    WHO | Statement on the 3rd meeting of the IHR Emergency Committee regarding the 2014 Ebola outbreak in West Africa

    Note: I underlined a portion of the recommendations, as that section rebuts a popular argument that has been raised in some sectors of the media with respect to limiting the spread of Ebola. I understand that at least some who have called for such restrictions are doing so in good faith and out of legitimate desire to curb the possible spread of Ebola. Nevertheless, at this time, I defer to the WHO's recommendation and its explanation for it.


    The Saudi said the most important and effective step they took.....was banning those from the infected countries from entering their Country.

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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Okay, so you're not "mocking" people like some in this thread are doing, you're just belittling them.
    If pointing out the scientific consensus on Ebola is belittling them, then I guess so.

    The great majority of people are still understandably intelligently concerned about Ebola .. about the 24 hours prior to experiencing classic symptoms .. about how much of the virus truly is in saliva during those last 24 hours prior to symptoms .. about what happens if the doctors are wrong or somehow a very poor person gets infected and doesn't go to the hospital but is cared for at home (how the epidemic spread in West Africa) .. about how long the virus can exist on surfaces in the cold and dark as winter approaches .. about how healthcare professionals can contract the disease from ER walk-in patients they care for prior to them testing positive and being placed in protective isolation (how the two nurses got Ebola from Duncan in Dallas) .. about how each new case of Ebola exposes the virus to a new host that may be the right environment for mutating to airborne .. about the effect of each new case of Ebola in America on Wall Street .. about how deadly the virus is, especially without proper treatment from the onset of symptoms, proper treatment so many of America's own poor can't afford .. about how special prevention of the spread of Ebola will thus be a taxpayer burden ...
    I'm trying to be reasonable, but it seems prudent to focus on the actual risks, and the bolded one is obviously a big one.

    I can see you're concerned about what you deem to be "overreaction".

    So far people have expressed their intelligent real concern, and authorities have or have begun to take intelligent action without overreacting.

    I don't see anything for you to be worried about here with regard to overreacting.

    Am I wrong?
    Yes, IMO, you are wrong. People avoiding NYC, for example, because one doctor walked around midtown Manhattan could cause real harm, based on a risk that science tells us is remote. Risks of TB or Hep C are greater, for many people the risk dying from flu is FAR greater.

    A number are concerned about underreacting.

    I can understand both concerns.
    I do as well.

    No, they most certainly do. Mockers mock because they fear. The mockers are predominantly left-leaners. They are concerned that their political powers will take a hit by Ebola so they're attempting to silence intelligent real concern about it by attempting to mock people into silence.

    It's quite obvious.
    I'm sorry, but the fact that some disagree with you doesn't =====>>> they're only disagreeing because of political concerns, especially when the views expressed by those who disagree with you are based on the recommendations of experts dealing with Ebola, scientists, with years of experience and study of Ebola and other potentially deadly infectious diseases.

    And here you hedge with your first word, and validate that you're thinking is all political.

    I'm a centrist, not partial to the right or the left.

    I am a psychologist, and thus I'm sensitive to the psychology of the great majority of Americans.

    We would all do well not to belittle, mock, overreact, underreact, etc.
    And perhaps not assigning bad political motives to those who disagree?

    According to a recent poll, 91% want flights restricted. 91% would include people on both sides of the aisle. This is a non-political issue concern.

    Treating it as political will actually hamper taking necessary protection steps (a la "Global Warming" flap), and will thus precipitate the very panic you'd prefer not to occur.
    I do understand we have to deal with public opinion and their fears whether rational or irrational, but there is a real downside to a travel ban, huge practical difficulties enforcing a ban that would be effective in preventing the sick from coming here, it would increase incentives to take steps to avoid the ban, impose hardships on the area where the disease needs to be stopped, and more. So let's say it appears the decision is a VERY narrow tightrope.

    And, again, when you dismiss those who disagree with you as doing so only for crass political motives, you're " treating it as political."

    Though there may be some who want to see Wall Street tank and the nation go into another depression just so they can point their finger at Obama, the overwhelming vast majority of Americans and those presenting intelligent real concern aren't among them.

    But keep thinking politically defensive .. and you'll reveal what you're real concern is: that it's better for your allied powers to appear safe from Ebola repercussions than for the physiological and psychological health of every American to be safe.
    See above. It's entirely possible for reasonable people to rationally evaluate the facts and evidence available to laymen, and disagree on such a complex topic with incredibly complex and difficult public policy choices, each with their own huge downsides.

    If you think that will be of value in addressing the intelligent real concerns of the great majority of Americans regarding Ebola, then do so.

    I too have done the same.

    But I recognize that the great majority are either not going to comprehend those details or be made aware of them.

    They will also not trust the sources, due to all the politicking going on, and mocking and belittling them will only make them more concerned.
    But many people are beating the Ebola!! drum are telling their audience to distrust the experts, and be afraid. There is perhaps a middle ground between travel bans, medical isolation for anyone who sets foot in W. Africa for 21 days and some reasonable steps to increase screening and follow up of people traveling here, better education, and calling out people who spread obvious disinformation and fears based on ignorance.

    And, when there appears to be exceptions to the general rules, and the threat of mutation to airborne is real (which it is), you'll be hard-pressed to say "exceedingly low" and expect the mother of a 3-year-old not to be intelligently concerned.
    What is 'intelligently concerned?' Mothers in Maine worried about a teacher who attended a conference in Dallas are not reacting based on 'intelligent concerns.' Those concerns aren't rational when weighed against the evidence, what we know of the disease, how it's spread, etc.

    We know that viruses can mutate to whatever it takes to insure their survival, as Darwin so accurately presented. Airborne is just one of those known qualities.

    That HIV is yet known to have mutated to airborne is meaningless.
    Viruses CAN mutate but the medical profession treats viruses on what they are, not what they might theoretically become. The most common virus, one that regularly mutates, is the flu, but our public policy doesn't treat the common flu as potentially as deadly as Ebola although there does exist a non-trivial chance that it could mutate into a far more deadly form.

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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Some are saying that David Hasselhoff is a god.
    Some are saying that Ebola patients are disapearing from the hospitals. I wonder what's really inside those 55 gallon drums leaving the hospitals ?

    Maybe will find out after the mid-terms ?

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya OG what do you think of the test with the primates.....then the Canadian Test from Pigs to primates? Why do they avoid what those researchers are saying?

    Why do you think those mocking this issue have nothing to say about the International Study on the Incubation Period?
    It's a major concern, yes.

    We all need to be sensitive to these concerns in other animals, even if it appears that humans are not yet passing airborne between each other.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Some are saying that Ebola patients are disapearing from the hospitals. I wonder what's really inside those 55 gallon drums leaving the hospitals ?
    zombies

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, despite all the "you can only catch it from caring for someone who is symptomatic and you come into contact with their blood, vomit, or feces" is being really put to the test here.

    It would appear the cameraman either touched something that a patient had touched and contracted Ebola indirectly, or, something blew the disease into his face.

    It's really difficult for the country at large to believe all the "medical information" when there appears to be exceptions.

    It's the exceptions that people remember and don't want to succumb to.

    There are indeed intelligent real concerns here in this matter.

    Best for all to be sensitive to them.
    Do you TRUST posters and people who sneer and jeer at the threat of Ebola, and use Condescending remarks, Ad-Hominem attacks and casual dismissal to those who are concerned about the threat of Ebola?

    Someone who sneers at the idea that Ebola is dangerous, if nothing else, will not be on guard and careful about contracting the illness, which makes them more likely to be carrying it.

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  10. #190
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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If pointing out the scientific consensus on Ebola is belittling them, then I guess so. I'm trying to be reasonable, but it seems prudent to focus on the actual risks, and the bolded one is obviously a big one. Yes, IMO, you are wrong. People avoiding NYC, for example, because one doctor walked around midtown Manhattan could cause real harm, based on a risk that science tells us is remote. Risks of TB or Hep C are greater, for many people the risk dying from flu is FAR greater. I do as well. I'm sorry, but the fact that some disagree with you doesn't =====>>> they're only disagreeing because of political concerns, especially when the views expressed by those who disagree with you are based on the recommendations of experts dealing with Ebola, scientists, with years of experience and study of Ebola and other potentially deadly infectious diseases. And perhaps not assigning bad political motives to those who disagree? I do understand we have to deal with public opinion and their fears whether rational or irrational, but there is a real downside to a travel ban, huge practical difficulties enforcing a ban that would be effective in preventing the sick from coming here, it would increase incentives to take steps to avoid the ban, impose hardships on the area where the disease needs to be stopped, and more. So let's say it appears the decision is a VERY narrow tightrope. And, again, when you dismiss those who disagree with you as doing so only for crass political motives, you're " treating it as political." See above. It's entirely possible for reasonable people to rationally evaluate the facts and evidence available to laymen, and disagree on such a complex topic with incredibly complex and difficult public policy choices, each with their own huge downsides. But many people are beating the Ebola!! drum are telling their audience to distrust the experts, and be afraid. There is perhaps a middle ground between travel bans, medical isolation for anyone who sets foot in W. Africa for 21 days and some reasonable steps to increase screening and follow up of people traveling here, better education, and calling out people who spread obvious disinformation and fears based on ignorance. What is 'intelligently concerned?' Mothers in Maine worried about a teacher who attended a conference in Dallas are not reacting based on 'intelligent concerns.' Those concerns aren't rational when weighed against the evidence, what we know of the disease, how it's spread, etc. Viruses CAN mutate but the medical profession treats viruses on what they are, not what they might theoretically become. The most common virus, one that regularly mutates, is the flu, but our public policy doesn't treat the common flu as potentially as deadly as Ebola although there does exist a non-trivial chance that it could mutate into a far more deadly form.
    As I said before, everyone would do well not to belittle, or especially mock, the very real concerns of the great majority of Americans with respect to Ebola.

    There are people, sadly, who are more concerned, not with the physical and psychological well-being of their fellow Americans, but with protecting their allied political power bases.

    These are the people who belittle and mock the very real concerns of the great majority of Americans.

    It's clear from your post that you do not respect a number of the intelligent real concerns of the majority of Americans with respect to Ebola, and that you disrespect them because you think they're not paying enough attention to "the facts".

    But here's an OP that presents why people simply don't trust that "the facts" are being accurately presented: http://www.debatepolitics.com/health...formation.html.

    It is important to understand that no matter how much you batter people with "the facts", that's not going to have the desired effect you're hoping for.

    Best is to be sensitive to the intelligent real concerns the majority is voicing ..

    .. And for a number of good reasons.

    If you're sensitive to them, then people will feel received, and will be less likely to panic.

    Then, in time, as events play out, time and events about the disease will evidence the truth, and people will see the truth for themselves, and they will believe it.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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